Has anyone had a Guardian go off?

[inaminit]

I have a guardian on my 99-I felt that it was a better investment than a preventative ims install. Now I am wondering what are the prospects for a good continuing service life for an engine with a new ims install after a guardian goes off. I am assuming that you stop the engine immediately after the alarm sounds.
A few posters on Rennlist are of the opinion that even a few metal flakes will doom an engine as a candidate for ims repair or rebuild.
Has anyone here had this happen to your car-and what did you do to get going again?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by inaminit

I have a guardian on my 99-I felt that it was a better investment than a preventative ims install. Now I am wondering what are the prospects for a good continuing service life for an engine with a new ims install after a guardian goes off. I am assuming that you stop the engine immediately after the alarm sounds.
A few posters on Rennlist are of the opinion that even a few metal flakes will doom an engine as a candidate for ims repair or rebuild.
Has anyone here had this happen to your car-and what did you do to get going again?

If the Guardian goes off, your prospects for then doing a retrofit go immediately to zero. Once the metal debris starts to appear, the engine has to come out and apart.

[inaminit]

JFP- At the time the guardian goes off, where in the engine would the metal debris have gotten to?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by inaminit

JFP- At the time the guardian goes off, where in the engine would the metal debris have gotten to?

Everywhere; that is the problem.

[Rapewta]

I agree. If the nifty guardian indicates metal particles, about the only thing it will do is make you stop driving and have the 996 towed home. In-other-words... you've had it without getting stranded.
Don't see the advantage.
What is it... 4 percent of the early 996's had the problem?
You that have had the failure, you have my honest sympathy.
I got one of the 96 cars out of a hundred. Took a gamble and got a wonderful car from someone
that was paranoid and sold it cheap.
But... the next clutch change, I ain't takin' no chances anymore and will have the retrofit bearing installed.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Rapewta

What is it... 4 percent of the early 996's had the problem?

More like 8-10% on the single row engines..........

[Sapientoni]

perhaps if you took the oil pan off and installed an adequately sized magnet in there, it would capture the ferrous materials and keep them from dispersing into the lifters and oil bearings? then if the Guardian alarmed, you'd be in good shape.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Sapientoni

perhaps if you took the oil pan off and installed an adequately sized magnet in there, it would capture the ferrous materials and keep them from dispersing into the lifters and oil bearings? then if the Guardian alarmed, you'd be in good shape.

You need to remember where the metal debris is coming from, and how oil is moving it around the engine to get it into the sump in the first place. By the time it is in the sump, it is already everywhere else in the engine.

[alfa11]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You need to remember where the metal debris is coming from, and how oil is moving it around the engine to get it into the sump in the first place. By the time it is in the sump, it is already everywhere else in the engine.

Not so sure I agree with that. It has not been in the pressurized side of the oil system. Presumably screens and filters would catch this before entering high pressure.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by alfa11

Not so sure I agree with that. It has not been in the pressurized side of the oil system. Presumably screens and filters would catch this before entering high pressure.

Then I would suggest looking at one that was taken apart after an IMS failure, debris is everywhere, even up in the cylinder heads. The OEM filter canister has a by-pass valve that sticks opens, often without provocation, and allows the metal to circulate everywhere. The oil pickup screen mesh is nowhere near fine enough to prevent this from happening. This is why the developers of the retrofit system have always required shops drop the sump on any engine before doing an IMS; if there is metal in sump, it is everywhere and will ultimately end up killing the engine.

[alfa11]

But we are comparing first signs of failure VS post total failure.

Oil pumps are designed to accept some trash in the system.

Regarding oil filter, agreed, spin on with correct type filter update is a MUST HAVE (Edit; Before the event) to prevent further damage.

Paul

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by alfa11

But we are comparing first signs of failure VS post total failure.

Does not matter; the by pass in the OEM canister are known to stick open even when nothing is going on, and the type of debris generated from onset to total failure is the same, only the volume changes.

[alfa11]

Possibly not if you have the updated oil filter assembly before hand.

In my post above I should have said that one would need the updated filter before the
"first signs" event.

Paul

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by alfa11

Possibly not if you have the updated oil filter assembly before hand.

In my post above I should have said that one would need the updated filter before the
"first signs" event.

Paul

A "full flow" spin on will reduce, but not eliminate the spread of the debris. While the filter will stop anything that it sees, windage will still throw debris around in the inside of the cases until the oil filter plugs and triggers the oil MIL. Meanwhile, the flowing filtered oil will also push around any bits it finds as well, spreading the crud through the engine.

Several people have tried, usually unsuccessfully, to recover an engine by doing a lot of oil and filter changes after an IMS failure, but it rarely works out well. It only takes on particle of ferrous grit in the wrong spot, say the thrust bearing on the crank, and it is all over with. I've read about one or two cases where people claim to have recovered one, but I have also seen a customers try it with little success. Once there is grit inside the engine, the odds are very much against you.

[alfa11]

OK, I'll bow out...