E36 Questions...

[Wayne 962]

th@nks! wrote on 06-22-2003 01:45 PM:
Wayne, Do euro M3 individual throttle bodies fit on a normal e36 head? What are the differences between the M3 motor and the normal 325 motor? higher compression, different intake manifold, doesn't the euro one have 4 valves per cylinder? Bigger valves, and isn't there a variable valve timing system of some sort on them? Please respond... i'm trying to learn before i purchace a car.

Hi there. My experience is mainly with Porsches, but I am steadily learning more about the 3-series engines every day (especially as I do the top end on my E36 325is).

Anyways, here are some short answers to your questions, as best I know:

- I believe that the individual Tbody kit that you are referring do (which is a very cool setup by the way) will fit any late-style six cylinder engine (they were all basically the same across the 3,5, and Z series).

- The 325 engine is a 2.5 engine (up to 1995). In 1996, they came out with a 2.8 liter engine (the 328) and moved the 2.5 liter engine to the lower model. This is where it gets very confusing. The 318 became the 323, but it didn't have a 2.3 engine, as you might think, it has the same 2.5 liter engine that the 1995 325is had. The reason behind this nomenclature was so that people who had bought the top of the line 3-series (the 325 in 1995) wouldn't have their cars confused with the bottom of the line (the 1996 325, renamed to the 323) for 1996. This would indeed have caused confusion at the dealer for the 1995/1996 cars that were on the lot at the same time. To answer your question, in 1995, the M3 engine was a 3.0 engine, and in 1996, it went to the 3.2 liter engine. This 3.0 engine is very similar to the ones that are in the 330s right now. In general, all of the six cylinder motors are very similar, with the M3s having increased displacement, higher compression, and differently tuned fuel injection systems. A major complaint from buyers of the E36 M3s is that they were too similar (in looks, mostly) to the regular 3-series line.

- All of the 6-cylinder engines used in the E36 line have four valves to each cylinder, as far as I know.

- The VANOS system of variable cam timing was installed in 1993 (I believe, as it is on my '93 325is), and used on all the six-cylinder engines. It advances the timing on the cams and is electronically controlled by the Motronic engine management system.

What are your requirements for a car?

-Wayne

[th@nks!]

I actually just looked at a 92 325is not 15 minutes ago. Very clean car. 70,5XX miles, VERY little rust, cracked front valence (repairable with apoxy if needed) for a listed 8,000$. All in all this car is what i'm looking for i guess. BUT its goldish....;-( i'll deal with it. Basically it will be a car for pure fun, i dont mind sacrificing creature comforts for performance, and i will baby it to keep it in good condition. My one reservation is that i i have a HUGE desire to build a kick a$$ N/A motor and i want there to be resources. I havent scratched the surface that much but it seems that there will be some. Thanks for the reply! I will probably be driving the car sometime tomorrow, as the dealer is closed today. Is there anyhting to look for that would/could possibly be wrong with this car that i should look for?

cheers!


By the way i'm a porsche guy too 1970 911T targa :-)

[th@nks!]

I'm going to start looking for ways to get my hands on some ITBs!!!! Would the stock computer deal with the new Tbodies? or would i have to go haltech/autronic? What is the compression on this kinda bmw 2.5L?

[th@nks!]

Hey what are you doing to your heads? As you can see from my three frantic posts, i'm excited about all this.

[stupenal]

Th@anks - You made a good choice by choosing a 1992 325 to work with if you want a nice strong NA engine. The 1992 engine did not have VANOS, but did come with hotter cams and stronger valve springs. Perfect to build a race engine with. The engine revs faster, freer, and runs quite a bit faster than the VANOS counterparts.

Wayne - when the 328 came out, the 318 was still in production. I do believe it was in production until 1997. The 325 was no more after 1995, although it would be later resurrected with the e46. The 323 did not come out until 1998, and was sold also in 1999 as the e36 coupe while the 323i came out as the e46 sedan. BMW wanted to phase in the new model, starting first with the sedan, then coupe, then convertible, and then finally the M3. yes, the 323 was in fact 2.5 L, but it was a detuned version of the 2.5 which put out only 168hp. I think the reason behind this was so as to create a bigger gap between the 328 and the 323. Before, with the 325 and 318, there was a substantial gap in power, thus justifying the cost difference. However, had bmw not detuned the 323, it would be maybe just .2-.5 seconds slower in the 60 dash while being thousands cheaper.

If you want to go to even hotter cams on the 1992 325, you'll have to look into aftermarket shrick cams. I suggest you take a look at the production date located on the sticker on the door. The early 1992 models (those built on 5/92 and earlier) have different suspension setup than the later models (6/92 and all the way until 98). Its not bad or anything, its just that it is easier to find aftermarket support for the later models since it shares the same suspension as the rest of the e36s.

As for engine mods - there is only so much you can do before the costs outweigh the gains. By that time, it would be much cheaper to just swap in the s50 or s52 from the e36 M3. Most people just end up doing that. Goodluck with your quest. Feel free to ask more questions - I originally responded to your first post but somehow it didnt show up and I didnt want to retype it all up.

[th@nks!]

Being that the 92 was the first of a new series of 325's are there any recalls that took place that i should know about? Any insight on the computer issue when it comes to the ITB's? Any sources to get them that arent across the pond?

[th@nks!]

its 2.20 am here and i'm thinking too much. i cant wait to drive that 325is later today.

[stupenal]

No really big things. Just careful with the rear subframe, its kinda weak. I havent had many issues with my 92, just basic easy stuff. Just look for a clean car. Mine was pretty well taken care of mechanically and the interior is perfect. I just need to take care of some dings on the outside. Otherwise, paint is immaculate.

Things to look for when buying -

rear shock mounts - they often get loose and rattle
exhaust - mine was rusted out, things were loose and rattly inside, soundged very ghetto
waterpump - definitely needs to be replaced no matter what
radiator - check the necks, it often gets brittle and cracks
engine - should be very smooth, power will kick in hard at around 4k rpm
headlights - they get yellow over time, but can be easily polished for less than $5

Try and get one where the bumpers and side skirts are already painted. The gray color of non painted ones looks HIDEOUS. Thank goodness mine had it all painted. Mine also had a killer sound system.

Oh yeah, dont forget to see if the sunroof works. They break easily. Mine just broke recently, it wont tilt anymore.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

I dont believe the individual throttle bodies form the M3 will bolt up due to differences in the intake port size. I believe that the ones for the 325, sold by BMP and a few others are a design modified from the M3 setup to fit the ports.

[th@nks!]

Some port difference is not a big deal because i have the facilities to do portmatching. Is the bolt/stud pattern the same? Could you post the disance between studs on your 325? both on the same port and distance between port studs. It would be much appreciated. I saw the BMP ones and was impressed, not really by the cost though. I still believe that getting my hands on some M3 ITBs would be cheaper.

cheers!

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Lemme look into this.. I beleieve that the ports on the M3 are oval, where the 325's are more circular.

[th@nks!]

Remember that there is a manifold after the Tbodies that THEN mates to the head. In this distance of the manifold is where the shape change of the port occurs.I believe the injectors are mounted on it as well. So really, a custom manifold is all you would need if you got the Tbodies.

[th@nks!]

Jared, any info on the port shape yet?

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Still working on this.