E36 reliability

[LeeH]

The E36 BMW is listed as a "reliable used car" in Consumer Reports. Yet, I've read there are issues with water pumps failing, radiator necks cracking, computers flooding in heavy rain, and rear suspension bolts that can pull through the body making for very expensive repairs.

How common are these problems? Am I just reading too much or is the E36 truly reliable?

[todd951]

The water pump issue is due to the fact that BMW originally used water pumps with a plastic impeller on the e36 6 cylinder engines. After a while the plastic would get brittle and eventually the impeller would disintegrate. BMW eventually identified the problem and started using updated pumps with aluminum impellers in 1997, so any car built after '97 or any car that has had the water pump replaced after '97 should be ok. If in doubt, the pump isn't very expensive so it's no big deal to go ahead and replace it if you can do the work yourself. Although if you have a shop do it for you, it will cost you a bit in labor.
The e36 radiator, like the Porsche 944 radiator, has plastic end caps which can potentially start to leak after a while. If it happens to you, you might consider replacing with an aftermarket radiator that is all-metal, if anyone out there makes one.
I'm fairly new to the BMW scene myself, so I haven't heard of anything about flooded computers or suspension bolts pulling through the body. But I have heard that it is common for the rear shock mounts to go bad, although I don't think that they are terribly expensive to replace.

[Wayne 962]

I haven't heard of the suspension bolts headed thru the body quite yet either. I would suspect that a breakdown of that magnitude would be accompanied by some pretty heavy driving, and/or an accident.

We're going to have a tech article coming up on radiator replacement, and also on the water pump replacement too. The same plastic problem happened with the 928 (or early 944, I can't remember off the top of my head), so it's not totally uncommon in the automotive world. In general, these two failures are not super-expensive to repair, providing that you have someone intelligent working on them.

As for the DME flooding? BMW moved the DME unit to a place in the engine compartment where the drain plug can become clogged with leaves and debris. If this happens, then the compartment can fill up with water, thus submerging the unit. Needless to say this is not good for the DME, and can cause it to fail. It's important just to keep this area clean, as a regular part of maintenance to the car. This usually only happens with poorly maintained cars.

I'm a huge fan of the E36 series. In my younger years, I was a big fan of the E30s, but the newer E36 is a definite improvement. With prices dropping daily, the time is approaching for these great cars to be had for mere pennies. The Kelly Blue Book on a 1992 318is is about $5500! And the car is virtually indistinguishable from it's $30,000 1999 cousins.

The interior on these cars also holds up real well, especially if you have leather or the vinyl leatherette. I have yet to see a truly trashed BMW E36 interior that couldn't be cleaned up almost to new. Then again, these cars don't have a tendency to be trashed. Which is another good thing. The cars now are often still on their first owner (the original $25-$30K buyer), and have probably been well kept for their entire lives.

In the long run, it's not uncommon to see many cars in excess of 150-200K...

-Wayne

[Blackfoot]

the radiators usually go for around 100k before the plastic separation begins. there are several sources for rebuilt/recored radiators.

e36's are extremely well-built, even better than porsche imho, and will go many, many miles. like any german car, however, maintenance is a bit pricey. but it's the price many are willing to pay.

hmmm, no image coding allowed here?

[Wayne 962]

Image coding should be - I'll have to check that...

Agreed, the level of quality comes close or even surpasses Porsche's. Sitting inside the E36, you get the unusual feeling of luxury and performance in one. I've never been able to feel that in a Porsche (not even the late model ones like the 964 or 993). With my Porsches, I've always accepted the spartan interiors or inferior heating as a given - a tradeoff for performance and handling.

I know that the E36 must sacrifice some handling, having the engine in the wrong position (not in the middle), but they certainly have balanced the car very well considering.

Personal feedback: My 318is with a manual transmission feels much faster than my 325is with an automatic. If you want to get a car for your wife, get the auto. If not, then you will be robbing yourself of power with the automatic. The 318 (even though it's the same exact car) feels much, much lighter than the 325, and 'throttle response' is much better. The automatic makes the car feel 'heavier' and slower. If you place it into manual mode (the automatic), it makes up for it somewhat, but it's still sluggish with the auto...

-Wayne

[todd951]

I bought my '93 325is from the original owner, and it had been taken care of pretty well. He had been a victim of the water pump failure, but it was a more expensive repair because the water pump seized and somehow took out the fan, fan housing, and radiator. The interior is in very good shape, except the vinyl is separating from the driver's side interior door panel, which I've heard is another common problem with the e36.
It is an enjoyable car to drive (mine is a 5-speed) but is noticeably slower than my previous 951. The 325 is my only car at the moment so I need to to be reliable, so I'm going to avoid any "performance" mods, at least until I have something else to drive in case something breaks.

[Wayne 962]

Hey, that's almost an unfair comparison. The 951 is one of the most blazingly fast cars around. Most 911 owners won't admit it, but the 944 Turbo will blow the doors off of most comparable year 911s...

The vinyl trim - is it separating from the top of the door, or the bottom. I haven't seen this yet. Is it caused by the sun? Is the vinyl shrinking, or is the glue simply coming off?

Do you feel like your 325 is heavier than the 951 or do they feel like they handle similarly? I think that the 944 is about 300-400 lbs lighter? (off the top of my head?)

-Wayne

[Nabeel]

I've heard of the vinyl seperating from the door and also bubbling. This usually affects cars in humid enviroments, and most commonly affects the earlier E36 models.

[Wayne 962]

It would seem that this would be an easy repair with a bit of 3M superweatherstrip, or is it harder than that?

-Wayne

[RonD922]

Hello,

I purchased my 92 Bmw 325IS about 2 months ago and it just keeps getting better. I was hit with the waterpump failure and it wobbled the fan into the radiator and punctured it. All in all I paid about $500 for the parts and labor from BMW. I could have done it myself for a lot less but it is my daily driver.

My 325IS manual is pretty quick. It will be put you in the back of the seat even though it only turns high 7's for 0-60. I have the M technic sport suspension (M3 Suspension) and M3 rims. It is great because combined with traction control it almost takes an act of god to even let the rear end slip. I can drop the clutch at 4000 Rpm and barely bark the tires. I just added a front strut tower bar, cross-drilled rotors, new pagids all around and although it is not as light as my 914 it handles very well. In my 914 I feel like I can toss it around but the BMW handles very well, it gives me a sense of confidence and I am sure that I would blink way before the Bimmer would!!!

About reliability, well I am having a problem with the Air volume sensor! Either the wiring is bad between it and the Ecu or the Ecu is not functioning properly. The engine runs real rich and therefore hesitates when the gas is mashed, but still a blast to drive. ABout the water pump--It is scheduled maintanence at 60k I believe so that should not have happened.

I paid 6300 for my 92 325is 80k with the M package (looks like an M3) and M Technic Sport Suspension (which the previous owner was oblivious too!!) and I feel I got a great deal. The car is just as refined as it is fun!

From what I understand the 318 will run forever with scheduled maintanence--but underpowered, 325--More power and still reliable but the mantenance is a bigger factor, M3 Awesome but high mantance like a Porsche. So take your pick, I chose the 325 because I could not afford an M3 and I happened to luck out and get an M3 with 325IS motor basically for a great price--Guy was going into debt and practically gave me the car!!

Anyway just my Thoughts on subject,

BUY A BMW YOU WILL NOT BE SORRY!!!

I also had an 87 325es which was a great car that I took to hell and back and she kept on pullin'--My first car!!

[Wayne 962]

Cripes you did get a good deal. Smokin' in fact. The book on that car is around $11K or so I would assume. I got my 1993 325is for $9300 with 71K on the clock, and that was a grand under blue. (got the '92 318is for $4600 with 120K and salvage/theft title).

Sounds like the waterpump and radiator replacement are two definite projects for the 101 book...

In my opinion, these BMWs are as well built as just about any car out there. There are some unbelievable cars from Toyota and Honda (in terms of reliability), but if you want something with style that is still reliable, you can't beat these.

I also like the 3-Series much better than the Mecedes 190s...

-Wayne

[todd951]

Wayne, I've heard that it's fairly common for the vinyl to bubble. The interior door panel is two pieces -- there's the main panel that covers the entire door, and then the center part with the arm rest is attached to the main panel with adhesive. In my case the center part with the arm rest came separated from the main panel. I reattached it with ordinary contact cement.
My car has the "sport package" and limited slip diff, so I think it handles quite well. Not quite as well as my 951 did, but my 951 has Bilstein road race shocks with heavier springs and torsion bars, so it's not really a fair comparison. The 325 is a few hundred pounds heavier, but I can't say that it feels much heavier. One might be able to feel the weight difference in a car without sport suspension.

[Nabeel]

6300 for a 1992 325is w/ only 80K is an awesome deal. You should be able to get faster 0-60 times than the high 7 second range, even with your bigger wheels and suspension mods. I've seen magazine times listing the 5-speed 325's in the 6.5-7.0 second range. Even the auto will run 0-60 in about 7.7-7.9 seconds. I'm aware that the 1992 models do not have the VANOS valve timing system, but it should not affect the acceleration times that much, since overall power is unchanged.

[Rick Lee]

All this talk of water pumps has me interested. My girlfriend just got a '96 328ic conv. with 21k miles. How do we prevent the water pump failure and/or when does it usually occur?

[stupenal]

I just happened to come across this forum because of wayne's post in the 944 forum (along with others too i assume). Anyways, being a teenager, I looked first towards the 944 (low price and supposedly very reliable) but the maintenance costs simply scared me away. I've always admired the e36, especially the coupe models, but the fact that it is just SO common (compared to the nissan 240sx i'm aiming at) and also the maintenance I've heard was pretty hefty, I was taken aback. However, now that I'm getting more info on the car, especially the 318is, i'm getting pretty interested. How do maintenance costs compare to a japanese import? I know the car will last pretty much forever, but how much will it cost to keep it going?

[RonD922]

Hello,

I am also younger (18) and I have only owned German vehicles so far. 1 good 914-1 Parts-1 911 for engine and parts-1 914 that I am rebuilding now-1 1987 BMW 325E-1 1992 VW Passat-1-92 BMW 325IS.

The maintanance on my first BMW was not to bad-I had to replace tires-The Clutch which I burned up-AC-which was expensive but natural for a car 13 yrs. old. Other than that it ran fine with little maintance. It was my first car and I drove it really hard and didn't even do scheduled maintance. I came back to the BMW's becuase I totaled my first BMW on the interstate after hitting a Semi-and I walked away without a scratch so I am very confident in the safety of BMW's.

I have only owned my 92 325IS for about 2 months now so I can not really tell you about the maintance. From what I understand if you just keep the oil changed and the scheduled maintance done the will run forever. The reason people think maintance is so high on German cars is the take them to the dealer. There is almost no difference in the prices on parts for Jap. compared to German cars, the difference is the Honda techs get paid $40 hour and the BMW techs get $70 an hour.

From what I understand the 318 is the easiest to keep on the road of the BMW family. 4 cyl. with the little maintance required.

Hope It Helps,
Ron

[Wayne 962]

Let me tell you guys a story. When I first got my Porsche, I almost collapsed when I found out how much the parts were. BMW parts are soooo cheap compared to the Porsche parts. Brake discs, clutch packages, you name it!

I think that Break-My-Wallet is a term reserved for the people who take their cars to the dealership. These are very affordable cars, and I haven't found parts to be that expensive.

I also have a 1988 Nissan Pathfinder. Talk about expensive parts. The ones I've gotten from the dealer (even with the 20% wholesale discount) are rediculous! $130 for a window regulator? 911 regulators aren't even that much...

-Wayne

[sayah]

You might add to the list of wear items which seem to need frequent replacement the following:

Ball Joints (needs swap out every 30k or so depending upon how rought the road service you regualarly travel on.)

All the components on the serpentine belt; alternator, power steering pump.

The muffler and rear shocks and mounts.

The alloy wheels, seems they are damaged by potholes.

All the electronics, they develop mysterious defects and seem impossible to diagnose by the dealer.

The power window motors.

Speaking of the dealer: watch out for the constant revolving door, especially when they start to switch your parts for one that came out of another car which they could not fix. This part will fix your complaint but will be anoyingly defective in is own peculiar and new way.

The car is fun to drive and takes you to a new level of fun while driving but will keep you busy fixing things.

BTW none of these thing seem to happen to a Honda Accord.


Cheers.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

BTW none of these thing seem to happen to a Honda Accord.

Yeah, especially the "whole new level of driving fun" part!!!

--DD

[RonD922]

Very nice reply...I have driven a few civics and Accords and even a prelude when car searching and NONE seem to give me even a remote hint of driving pleasure!! Mostly I just the feeling they are cheap by the interior and shift linkage!!

Ron