Stock injectors are reaching their limit even with stock engine and ramping up fuel pressure does not make the poor control the old fat type injectors already have much better.

And I can tell you that with these sort of hacks (stock injectors+DME with RRFPR) driveability will suck and mixtures are off at part loads and transients..

Can someone please explain the rationale behind the willingness to opt for hacks instead of going proper route (correctly sized injectors and programmable ECU) when cost difference can be counted in hundreds not thousands? I'm not getting it.

Small turbo+non-intercooler+stock injectors will most likely result in post in the forums in the manner of "why my engine lost compression in cylinder x" after some time.

I am on board with the bigger injectors but keeping it simple and within my abilities is paramount.

Programable ECU is a stage 2 for me.


Chris
89 Carrera

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/dom.gif

The simplest route would be the larger injectors with a chip from Protomotive.

Stage 3, you can go aftermarket EFI if you want.

What would be the load parameter of controlling injectors when stock AFM is maxed out (=fully open) even with n/a engine?

The rising rate fuel pressure regulator is multiplying the fuel pressure proportional to the boost.

Yes, the barn door is fully open around atmospheric, but the fuel pressure will rise rapidly once in boost.

My understanding, fuel required for boost is pretty linear.

It's not ideal, but you know what? I fcuked my motor up tuning myself while with the Protomotive chip, I didn't have any problems for years, and years at 1.2 bar.

You can get a safe and fully working ignition map for turbocharged 3.2 from other sources also than buying Protomotive chip :)

It is still beyond my logic when people spend (tens of) thousands on engine parts and skimp hundreds on management while it is proven hundreds of times that one can get much better results with just stock engine and using fully controllable fuel and ignition.
I understand the logic when back in the days there just was no other option but nowadays?

My guess is that it’s an intimidation. Voodoo

Exactly.

Installing EFI from scratch and tuning when you have no prior knowledge is very hard, especially if you are electrical ignorant like I was and just somewhat computer savvy.

With Protomotive, you simply swap out the DME chip and fuel pressure regulator, and you are boosting to 350 hp with very little effort.

Swap out to bigger injectors, and you are running 500 hp with the 2 things mentioned above and 1 bar of boost.

That's it.

I have 30k on a high mileage motor (150k) and no issues in that time with a Protomotive chip, stock injectors and Todd's old rr fpr. Plugs look great when removed. I'd like earlier boost with a more modern turbo, but am hesitant to mess with what's working.

Greg, I'd put a more modern turbo that lights sooner. There shouldn't be any issue with the fuel injection side of things.

Just enjoy more torque many hundreds of RPM sooner with a new hairdryer. :cool:

What is voodoo lol?

I see double standards here. One standard is that when people ask for sugestions when repairing something then common thing is to say that do it once and do it right but when things come to electronics then people tend to sugest all kinds of stuff except proper way.
With engine (or anything else) repair the very same people sugest to take car to a shop if one cannot do it themselves and yet with standalone you say it is very difficult to do yourself and better not to do it at all. Take the car to a local tuner, it is not a rocket science ffs...

Is it US specific attitude towards EFI where evryone is scared of it and prefers good old carb or what?

I am sorry but I don't get it.

The idea you can build something and just take it to a local tuner is false. The people that really know what they are doing are usually hundreds or thousands of miles away. There are local tuners that talk the talk, but if you bring them anything outside of the plug and play bolt on mods they are lost. I learned this the hard way. They talk a bunch of smack and blame the car when they can't figure it out. Then you need to track down someone that really knows how to tune and wait several months for a spot.

There are also states, like California, with heavy fines associated with emissions tampering. So that is weeding out the tuners that have been busted. And scaring off the ones that have not been caught.

So finally you are left with learning how to tune yourself. That is an intimidating task.
But that is where I am. I plan to take some classes and learn to tune.

You asked what we thought was the reason. I mentioned intimidation factor. I did stand alone efi because it was right and also I didn’t have the motronic Ecu but anyway.

Same here. I was very interested in the ECU but at the end of the day I just didnt feel confident in tackling a project that I knew nothing about. Its too much to learn for a one off situation and experimenting with my engine not knowing what I'm doing could result in the same "I lost a cylinder" post.

I have an SC 3.0 with PMO carbs and SSI, IF big IF, I wanted to bite the boost bullet what would my path look like...

930 J-pip, 930 headers or will the SSI's work? Or just pony up for RarLy8 headers, maybe a 3.2 intake manifold, stand alone EFI, K27 or the like, Tia WG, injectors, i'm a bunch more i'm missing. Just trying to get my head around how big this job would be.

I’ve heard ssi can have a j-style pipe made for them. Your want some kind of intake manifold that wasn’t pmo just because they’re very complicated to turbo. 3.2 carrera would work with some adjustments. Mega squirt efi system. Turbo oil feed and drain. Intercooler if some kind. New muffler if not a zork thisnlottle list is a lot $ though.

Would be way cheaper than a 3.6L swap.

You can do this for very, very cheap.

You don't need a 3.2 intake. Your original CIS intake is fine.

You don't need a K27. They are very expensive. VS Racing and other eBay turbos made in China have been performing very well for years now.

Silicone couplers. They are cheap. Aluminum pipe. Very cheap. eBay is your friend.

Intercooler. eBay again.

Wastegate is your biggest expense. Do not cheap out on that. A stuck WG is a blown motor!

Blow off valve (BOV). Cheap. eBay.

Only thing I am that I am ignorant on is getting additional fuel from the CIS.

I have to weigh in on the cheep turbo..
My china gt3582 doesn't get 1 bar till 4250rpm. Thats too slow.