Turbo conversion guys.... why not a 930?
 

For all those who have turbo'd their non-930 cars, I am wondering what led you to the choice to turbo vs the often suggested "just buy a 930" path?

I am very seriously considering diving deep into my SC over the next several years to create the 911 Turbo I want... I bought last year, (peak price) and have now "invested" into a trans rebuild so with SC prices falling I will never see my money back... So I am thinking why not just go all in and enjoy making the car I want.

So I am wondering how others arrived at their conclusion.

the 'making' part I enjoy as much as having it in running condition. but be prepared for the cost, not a cheap endeavor.

with this pot on the stove I sold my 85 911 targa and 87 944S last year for funds and to remove some of the distraction. but the 928 and 951 just keep demanding attention. :eek:

I have often wondered this about the PO who did the original conversion. 78 SC that was stripped to the tub and blasted, repainted (color change) and used Golden Coachworks wide body slant nose kit, all metal.

conversion done in 1989, so I would have suspected the prices of 930s to be 'reasonable'.

I have been working on it for over 5 yrs, doing a total 'down to the tub' restore. and in the process finish upgrading the brakes and suspension and gearbox to 930 level where the PO left the SC suspension and brakes and 915. it has been 'sucking hind teet' to the other projects.

in reflection I probably should not have bought this project car, already had 3 at the time. but a 930 poster has been on my wall for YEARS. at the time 930 prices were climbing fast and never thought I'd ever be able to afford one.

just got the short bell housing 930 gearbox I have been searching for (at a reasonable price) for past three years. lots of rebuilt, refreshed, replated parts now converging. next step is to mount on a rotisserie to sand blast and primer the tub.

good luck on whatever you do.

my build is active in case you want to see what you are facing. or maybe you should not look and just jump in like I did.

SmileWavy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560692934.JPG

Beware neverenoughitis. No known cure....

I needed a few more HP to keep the 997's from running away from me.

Yea, I just don't know what to do. With the trans repair I feel like i'm in to deep to get out of this car if I wanted to try to jump to a 930.

Then I wonder if I "should" just say eff it and just build the car I want, sure would have been a lot easier if I have just liked Vette's

A few years ago it didn't make any (financial) sense to build a 911Turbo versus buying a 930 as the 930 was relatively affordable. I did it as a learning experience and to create the car of my dreams at that time. Financially stupid move. I ended up with a car worth 1/2 what I had in it. Had my crystal ball been worth a $hit I would have kept the car for 5 more years and got my money back.
The same economics still apply today, it is expensive to build a 911Turbo and expensive to buy a 930. So it comes down to what you want to do with the car. If the car you want means you would need to modify the 930 to get there then building the 911 becomes more feasible. If preserving your investment is important then buying a 930 is the better choice.

I went through this with a previous car & motor.
I kept hotrodding our '73e. more power, wider fenders for wider tires, 930 brakes etc. Then needed more power.
A few years back I decided I wanted to turbo my '68 bus. Living at 7,000 ft. makes you want to turbo everything. Already had a 3.2 in there, so I started looking into converting the 3.2 to turbo. In the end I bought a 3.3 turbo motor (long story), mainly because it had all the turbo components, and I figured it would be cheaper in the long run.
If a turbo is your goal, then get a turbo. All the components that you will need to go with the power are already there, fat fenders, fat tires, great brakes, etc. The turbo prices have leveled off and in some cases come down. There are some nice hot rodded turbos for sale which are probably cheaper than you piecing one together.

1,200 hp? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I was wondering what the hell as well. Never heard of such a thing, nor would I ever consider driving one of these with 1200 hp. The 930 is known as the widowmaker, this one takes it a few steps further - it’s simply called a deathtrap.

Yea, I bought the SC that I have now because it was modified already, knowing I would have done the same...

I still think that my main mission will be to sort a turbo set up and then visit the idea of a wide body well after that. With modern turbos and tires a wide body is mostly for looks... but daym do I like it :)

GinormousGerry (GJF) has one of the most awesome and radical, boosted 911s ever built, and it's a slant, too! Maybe he will post some pics?

That undercarriage is a thing of beauty, but I’d be way too scared to ever get in this car. I’d prefer having three 930s that total 1200 hp, but that’s just me.

I hear that it's mandatory to bring a few extra pair of underwear, or maybe even some superduty Depends, and a fresh container of baby-wipes, too!!! :eek:

I’ve had friends that needed to change their undies after me taking them for a ride in one of my 930s with a lil more than a third of that hp. I sometimes need to change mine too. :eek: You’re still after these dirty drawers for your PTSS collection right Raw?!? :p

^^^

You are a nasty, nasty beast, JMS - filthy even!!!! :D

Wow!

For some reason in my head a 911 should be a fire breathing monster... and while my goal is far from 1200HP, I think a 400hp sub2500lb car would be a blast!

I think i'll keep collecting parts toward a turbo set up .5/.7bar to start, then get a lil crazy after a proper lower comp rebuild... I want to learn this car inside and out, and I have lots of time to get it to my goal.

And with so many turbo freaks around here i'll have no shortage of help ;)

If it wasn't for the glass 915 turboing would actually be pretty reasonable money.

This is (IMHO) a pretty simple question. Is this your forever car in as much that you dont care about re-sale value? When I started my engine build the 930 market was crazy so I made a bunch of dumb decisions in the name of originality. Now that is has cooled significantly I should have just built it the way I wanted it.

Unless your starting platform isn't some rare/desirable spec I feel like building the car you want from the get go is the smarter choice than trying to find a ratty 930 just for its VIN. But if you want to restore something and rub it with a diaper on the weekend then buy a 930.

You are with a good group of dudes here no matter what you want to do.

You don’t even need 400 hp, nor do you need to shed any weight to have a blast with a turbo. Once you add the forced induction, I’m telling you there’s no reason to get cute and put it on a diet. That’s for the NA guys that do their best to gain power through subtraction, i.e. reduction of parts. That’s just silly when you’ve got more power than you need.

GJF that car is nuts. Looks so nice too. Wow.

Well for me I never thought I’d be able to afford a real 930. Now having spent enough to have bought one, I still couldn’t have in one shopping spree. And while I’ve told many to “just get a real 930”, I don’t think I would. If I got one I wouldn’t want to harm it’s value by adding the parts I have to mine in my quest for more. And also I like them. So a real 930 is too tame for me and also too valuable.
Interesting thing is that lately I’ve found that modded 911’s with turbos and adding a back date and some “popular” mods to be supporting higher prices at auction(bring a trailer)than a modded 930. It’s true. So if you have a 930, keep it as is. If you want power make it bolt ons.
For me, I love making my car mine. I wouldn’t do that to a 930 because I’m just too focused on value and I hate hurting the value of something I truly respect.
My car was already kind of a mess with bad engine. I got it cheap. Enjoyed it without worry. It’s gone through a lot lot of change. I’ve enjoyed it all. Would I love a 930? Of course. But not for the same reasons I have enjoyed mine.

My SC is 2500 lb, and 300 HP. A handful at that.
GJF, please drive through a mud puddle or something. That is too clean.

Here is another guy that has built nutz power 911 engines, Eddie Bello. I thought you might like to see this 1200+ hp dyno action. There are several cool videos of his car in action at drag strips, and events like The Texas Mile (where he went well over 200mph in that car :D), as well.

BTW, he has a Matt Monson differential in that thing.

PS - this is also some more inspiration for Geronimo! :D

<iframe width="839" height="559" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0CwlJaeKQ_k" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

this is my goal. in part because I am keeping the CIS so that tends to limit how high you can push the HP.

I sure have.....

Rawks, is that the one that used to do wheel stands at the drag?

My car is nothing special, and will never be stock, that just isn't my style. I have a picture in my head of what I want, (sadly a few pictures but one car).

I think the best plan is to sort a solid base parts list and start looking for deals on the parts as they come and shoot for a solid low boost set up with future potential.

And pray I find a future trans solution lol.

hahahaha

I'll bet!

Its hard to tell from the pics (gorgeous) but are the two airflow paths entirely separate, ie that intercooler is really two-in-one, or does the airflow merge after the turbos?

If merging, are the two turbos the same, or is one build to build pressure earlier and one to deliver more air later?

Not my cup of tea Raw, not even close. I know this can be done, but I don’t get why anyone would do it. It seems to be an addiction of always wanting more horsepower....and the need for the dyno to prove to them that they got it. So they keep modding and modding, pissing away more and more money into the same car, all for the gratification of that stupid snapshot (of the monitor) and print out of the dyno proving their success. And like they really needed that last little bit of horsepower that pushed it up over 1200. That’s lunacy in my book. What a total waste of money, but to each their own I guess. Hopefully this guy doesn’t kill himself trying to continually break speed records.

My cup of tea is a modded engine built by the Special Wishes Department, the original factory power kit...the 930 WLS

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560782370.jpg

I would have like to have had a 930, but they were just too expensive. I found an awesome deal on my car, a 79 widebody conversion that needed a lot of love, a non runner. it was as bastardized as it comes. 3.1(yes, factory 3.1)with 3.2 heads and a custom intake that used a Holley Pro-Jection TBi setup. The ecu was burned up, along with a lot of cut wires. I ditched all of that stuff and sourced a 3.2 intake, fuel rails, and throttle body. I used a Bitz ecu(MS1) to run it all.
The one thing that always bothered me is the TURBO emblem on the rear lid. Either I take it off, risking paint damage, or add a turbo kit. I chose the Turbo route! I can never leave anything alone!
I sourced most all of my parts used. It takes some time to find things at the right price. This was the age where 930s were so hot, that pretty much anything turbo related had elevated asking prices. you really have to do your homework, but take your time sourcing parts, and build it when you get them all. I did my conversion in a weekend, also added EDIS ignition, and Microsquirt ecu.
I have far less in my car than a 930, it will embarrass any stock 930, and will impress a lot of folks out on the roads. If my car were a 930, I would be more worried about my investment, but since i have one of the most bastardized cars on the market, Im not worried about it.

^^^
same for me. got the project not running. had a rebuilt 3.3 turbo motor but 74 mag case 915 with 7:34 and other gear changes best for a NA on autocross, then a TALL 5th.

now that I have a proper 930 gearbox I have most of what I need. of course waiting on parts I sent to Shaun at tru-6.com to cerakote and replate, along with the stuff I sent to Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems to build / recondition.

yesterday started restoring the rear light housings. and need to finalize my wiring plan so Dennis can build the full, customer wiring harness....

over 5 yrs but think I can see it starting to come together. now to get the tub on the rotisserie and get busy with finalizing the body work and prep for paint.

and when done I do expect it to significantly out preform any stock'ish 930.

I am into the wrenching and ultimately the DRIVING experience, and not the 'investment' angle or garage queen show cars.

gotta drive them.

and for the 1,000+ hp junkies, at least they dont hang a set of balls off the rear bumper as I see on so many trucks.:eek:

Looks like JMS finally found a home, I'm happy for him !!!! Now if only the caveman ....

OP, exactly how much is the all in budget ?

I am not sure on the budget... as much as I can get by the wife yearly... lol she is very cool.

I figure the turbo set up should cost me $5k - $8K give or take. maybe $10K when all in said and done, IE tuning and lil bits and the unknowns.

If I can get ll the bits in the next two years I think that would be reasonable and might keep me under her "want to punch my face radar".

If i'm smart I start doing some art side hustle to make some Porsche play money, and put that fancy degree to good use.

By the time all was said and done I spent enough on this car to buy TWO 930's at the time (before the recession). It would involve great difficulty and expense to build this car starting with a 930 instead of the stripped down base model SC that was used. The value of the 930 would be reduced in the process while the value of the SC would at least stay the same if not increase a little.
In the end this car was crazy fun. 915 5spd with 360whp, 2700lb with me in it. 0-100-0 in 13 seconds. After 15 years of enjoyment I sold it to buy a 930. 930 is a COMPLETELY different car / experience and fun in a different way.
Do what you want, there is no telling what the future holds.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560809255.jpg

i passed on a few 930's because i did not find them as agile as my SC. ended up doing 3.6 in the SC instead.
found the low comp, long 4 speed great for motorway but not tight corners or local race tracks.
ended up with a 964 turbo as well though, g50 five speed and coil overs from factory.

I have far less than $5k in my turbo set up. In fact, I’m gonna guarantee i have less than that even in my EFI and turbo set up combined. Obviously, I did all of the wrench work. Maybe if you are paying someone to do all the work, I could see $5-8k. My engine is still high compression, but I have my car set up for flex fuel, but currently on 93 pump gas and no problems at 10lbs of boost. Until the next transmission explosion, that is.

Hey man, I love what you are doing! I have a lot of friends with Supras, one with just over 1000hp. It’s crazy that you could achieve the same success with an air cooled engine. I bet it wasn’t cheap. Hell, running that fast in the mile is awesome, but it would scare the **** out of me. There have been some serious accidents the past year, including a fatality in Florida at a half mile event. I worry about how fast some of these streetcars have become just over the past few years. Be safe man! If I had the cash to put into my car to achieve what you have, I’d be right behind you brother.

Love the 964 look, if I didn’t have side vents, I would love to do the update. The side vents have kind of grown on me though.

The reason why anyone does it is simply for fun; some people, particularly mechanics, and racers (hobby or pro), get a lot of enjoyment out of testing their abilities to push a machine to its max (it is very challenging and rewarding to do that successfully, and even rewarding, to a certain extent, in the inevitable failures, as you then learn a lot and try again). You can see the fun level from those guys in the dyno room on that final pull when they are all smiles and even joking about, "Is that all? Seems a little down on power".

But like you said, definitely an each to their own scenario.


Yep - some vids of insane wheel stands at launch and ridiculously quick quarter mile times on YouTube. His success at the TexASS mile, and similar events, is what's really impressive - spanked a few twin turboed Lambos, etc., a time or three.

Rarelyl8 that is a sick sick car man.

I may start a thread at some point to help me create a parts list specific for my needs so I can keep an eye out for deals. I know one of the turbo guys did a nice spreadsheet of parts and costs.

I did pick up a 3.2 intake manifold, fuel rails, and TB.

I quite agree, there is no way that car has 1200hp.
That color car is only good for a max of about 750hp!

Right, ol' Gerry, who has been posting details about that car of his, as well as sharing his vast knowledge of turbocharging, here for over a decade and a half, suddenly feels the need to lie about its performance, just for shiits and giggles - maybe you have him confused with Donald Trump?!

I'm probably in the minority here but I just like the look of a 930. I prefer a normally aspirated air cooled engine. I've already had a real 930 and one that was highly modified with 3.5L, K29 turbo, and a ton of engine mods getting it close to 400HP. It had suspension mods to match. It was fun, but I cannot say it was any more fun than my stock 996turbo. So for me it was an easy decision to go with modifying my 75 911s rather than pay the money for a real 930 again. I'll find out in the next month if I made the right choice. I'm hoping the 3.6L 964 engine with Motec engine management and Rasant Engineering intake is going to breathe enough new life in to the car to make it feel fast and fun. It will have ~280HP and still doesn't weigh very much despite the wider fenders and heavier engine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560841902.jpg


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