Interesting Flat Fan Racecar

[RarlyL8]

This interesting tiny Elva racecar showed up at the shop last week. Fellow vintage races and apparently brushed a wall. Pretty cool little car, but the big thing that stuck out to me was the flat fan. This may be another avenue for parts or assemblies if someone is wanting to do a similar setup. Apparently these cars and their engines are still supported by the aftermarket.

[full quack]

Wow, if I'm not mistaken, that is a fairly rare dual overhead cam 356 engine.

I have seen somewhere {article in Hagerty magazine?}, where there is a company that makes replacement parts for those engines, but they are far from cheap!!

The flat fan is a rendition that I've never seen before, maybe stuff from the same company?

Mark

[Matt Monson]

Brian,
Who is making that fan kit, Peter Hoffman?

Those old Elvas are damn cool.

[VZ935]

Seems to be the same fan you see on a lot of Elva's. No idea who makes it. No guibo like the Porsche unit

[RarlyL8]

Don't know who makes the fan assembly but we are going to find out. I've never seen one of these in the flesh before and didn't realize how rare they are. Apparently there only 3 of the twin cam 356 flat fan cars that are left hand drive. Wayne the mechanic is going to be adding even more old air cooled knowledge to his already crowed Porsche brain working on this little jewel. Don't know how far down they will take the car but I'm interested to see the fan drive and some of the other old mechanical items.

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Don't know who makes the fan assembly but we are going to find out. I've never seen one of these in the flesh before and didn't realize how rare they are. Apparently there only 3 of the twin cam 356 flat fan cars that are left hand drive. Wayne the mechanic is going to be adding even more old air cooled knowledge to his already crowed Porsche brain working on this little jewel. Don't know how far down they will take the car but I'm interested to see the fan drive and some of the other old mechanical items.

Rare to the extreme. Four-cam motors are unobtainium now. These motors were a very premium 356 option called Carrera2 I believe but they are not 356 motors. They are exotic Porsche race intended air-cooled flat four motors of unique design. Terribly expensive. The street four-cam had an upright fan with back to back centrifugal fans mounted on center and pulling air from front and back sides of the housing. That car's fan is usually seen on the Porsche flat-8 F1 motor.

BTW, See the similar below. Corvairish, these made for flat 4 Type1 and Type 4 VW motors. Mostly in the Kaefer race seriies and on the street in what are called German Look Super Beetles, type 1302 and 1303 in Europe.

I'm building a German Look Beetle.

[RarlyL8]

Yes the more I learn about the Porsche Elva the more I wonder why in the heck this guy races it! Thank goodness the engine wasn't damaged when he scrubbed the wall. Wayne said he may end up making some of the parts due to lack of availability. They do have a world class machine shop at their disposal, good thing!

[Matt Monson]

Take a close looking at all the distributor and cam timing. That engine is more complicated than a Swiss watch. They are amazing pieces of engineering and while Honda likes to claim the b16 engine was the first 100hp/l street engine Porsche did it first with the 4 cam.

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Yes the more I learn about the Porsche Elva the more I wonder why in the heck this guy races it! Thank goodness the engine wasn't damaged when he scrubbed the wall. Wayne said he may end up making some of the parts due to lack of availability. They do have a world class machine shop at their disposal, good thing!

I remember seeing Elva's Racing SCCA in the early 70s. Most
Porsche racers of various form were running 911 motors 911S or 906 spec by then. Not sure if the class Elvas ran allowed 2.0L. Anyway, I frequented a private German mechanic's garage in the late 60s and remember studying a 356 with this motor.....he just cursed it. I liked hearing him curse in German.

Google 4 cam Porsche motor.

[JFairman]

Around 33 years ago I worked at a place that had 2 or 3 of those motors in cars in the museum. I remember hearing there was only a couple guys around that could rebuild those motors. The dual overhead cams are shaft driven and everything has to be set up perfect tolerance.
One or more of the cam housings has a little exposed flywheel out on the end.

[copbait73]

Am I seeing the left rear suspension torn off? Did the engine get involved?

[RarlyL8]

Yes left rear suspension was damaged. Fortunately the drivetrain was not. Wayne's been working on air cooled Porsches for 50 years and has experience building the 4 cam engine. Parts availability is the only issue; with Martin's machine shop that problem goes away. They make parts for NASA so this shouldn't be a problem, ha! Pretty cool project, I'll post some pics as the work is done.

[boosted79]

That engine is worth a small fortune, if I owned it I'd pull it and drop in a built VW. Here is a cross section of a road 356 four cam showing shafts at the bottom and between the cams to drive them. They also had a built up crank with roller bearings on the rods.

[boosted79]

Also, notice twin plug.

[boosted79]

Some more pics. RarlyL8, stick a turbo on that for him.

[JFairman]

They are trick little Porsche motors from a long time ago...

Building one that will run well, last, and not leak oil is the hard part.
The forged steel cam drive shafts, gears, cast aluminum case, heads, and cylinders all expand and contract at different rates as the motor heats up and cools down so the shim sets and clearances all have to be exact to factory specs or else it's a leaker.
A wealthy collector that actually drives a nice one in vintage events and stores it in an air conditioned museum with the hoods and doors unlatched so the rubber door seals don't become compressed or dry rotted would not tolerate that.

[JFairman]

Originally Posted by copbait73

Rare to the extreme. Four-cam motors are unobtainium now. These motors were a very premium 356 option called Carrera2 I believe but they are not 356 motors. They are exotic Porsche race intended air-cooled flat four motors of unique design. Terribly expensive. The street four-cam had an upright fan with back to back centrifugal fans mounted on center and pulling air from front and back sides of the housing. That car's fan is usually seen on the Porsche flat-8 F1 motor.

A variant of this four cam motor also came in the Porsche 904 race car. If I remember correctly the 904 was Porsche's first fiberglass and steel chassis.

[botic]

Brian,
Not easy to see but I don't think the rear suspensions are the same as the 904.
If you transmit a picture of the damaged parts, I'll tell you if they are matching or not.

By the way I'm trying to locate a 904 engine project. I've got lot of orginal parts but only missing the engine cases... Won't be a piece of cake ...
:-(

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by botic

Brian,
Not easy to see but I don't think the rear suspensions are the same as the 904.
If you transmit a picture of the damaged parts, I'll tell you if they are matching or not.

By the way I'm trying to locate a 904 engine project. I've got lot of orginal parts but only missing the engine cases... Won't be a piece of cake ...
:-(

Elva's were an English chassis design fabrication that used various motors, mostly water-cooled I4.

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by JFairman

A variant of this four cam motor also came in the Porsche 904 race car. If I remember correctly the 904 was Porsche's first fiberglass and steel chassis.

I have numerous pictures of 904 with 4cam motors having their typical upright fans. Also pics of the 904 racing cars, none had this flat fan on this motor.
The flat8 used this fan, I believe, raced in the F1 and 907 cars.
Still haven't found an old picture of it on the 4cam. The Elva fan unit also carries swept blades making it old and rare. Here is a flat8 racing motor.