I want to turbo my 3.2L carrera

[torresmd]

OK guys I bought a project car and will be working on the body for a while with the goal of a Rauh-Welt body. The car came with a 3.2L carrera motronic motor. I runs pretty good but just way too under powered for this type of project. For all you engine experts out there.... I need your advice. My goal would be 450 to 500 hp. I basically need a recipe on how to accomplish this.
Thanks

[juan ruiz]

I got your headers already

3.2 headers for turbo conversion

[Tippy]

Read "help me choose the right turbo".

[torresmd]

Juan : Nice headers, so you obviously have the knowledge to help out.

Tippy, good call thanks!

[turbobrat930]

Turbo, headers, intercooler, EFI (aftermarket, MoTec, LinkEFi, etc), bigger injectors, a fresh rebuild ( rod bolts, etc), up the C/R, twin plug, etc, etc, etc.... it is a VERY steep slope.....

[polizei]

Originally Posted by torresmd

OK guys I bought a project car and will be working on the body for a while with the goal of a Rauh-Welt body. The car came with a 3.2L carrera motronic motor. I runs pretty good but just way too under powered for this type of project. For all you engine experts out there.... I need your advice. My goal would be 450 to 500 hp. I basically need a recipe on how to accomplish this.
Thanks

Hey Steve, welcome to the insanity. Though it looks like you are no novice to forced induction from your signature!

There are a few different paths that folks on this forum have taken to turbo charge their 3.2 Carreras:

1. 325 RWHP @ .5 bar for $3-5k. No top end or bottom end changes. Replace Carrera Catalytic Converter with 930 J pipe, add a turbo, replace carrera muffler with 930 muffler & cat or go with an M&K or Rarly8 muffler, fab a charge pipe from the turbo to the Air Flow Meter (w/ a Blow Off Valve), fab plumbing from the turbo to the rear wheel well or into the engine bay for an air filter (how much rain your car will see should determine this), add a tial 46 mm waste gate with a .5 bar spring, add an oil drain canister and scavenge pump for the turbo, add a BEGI rising rate fuel pressure regulator (rrfpr - i've got one for sale) or a Protomotive rrpr, swap your stock ECU for a Protomotive Stage 1 ECU, and install an Innovate LM-1 for tuning. This is the most economic route and will give you approximately 325 rwhp. This can be done for $3-5k depending mostly on the headers, muffler & turbo you choose. Not advisable to run any more boost without lowering compression.

2. 375 RWHP @ .7 bar for $8-10k. Do #1 above, rebuild the top end of your engine, replace your Carrera pistons and cylinders with 3.3 L half finned cylinders (fully finned are better and more expensive) and no more than 8.5:1 compression pistons (a lot of different options here), replace stock rod bolts with ARP rod bolts, replace stock head studs with ARP or Supertech head studs, add a .7 bar waste gate spring & replace stock ECU with custom Protomtive chip. I ran this setup and had trouble keeping the stock rubber elbow connected from the throttle body to the AFM. Not advisable to run any more boost without cooling the intake charge.

3. 400 RWHP @ .8 bar for $11-12k. Do #2 above, add an air-to-air or water-to-air intercooler or even water/methanol injection, add a .8 bar waste gate spring & replace stock ECU with custom Protomtive chip. There are hidden costs here depending on your cooling solution. You will need to replace your Carrera tail with a turbo tail if you go down the air-to-air I/C road. After .8 bar, the Carrera fuel injectors clamp closed

4. 450 RWHP @ 1.0 bar for $13-14k. Do #3 above, replace Carrera injectors with 944 Turbo injectors, replace Carrera fuel pump with Bosch 044 fuel pump, add a 1.0 bar waste gate spring & replace stock ECU with custom Protomtive chip.

All of these options tie you down to Protomotive and leave you with no good way to really tune in your engine. #1 is the best option in terms of bang for the buck, but if you want ANY more HP, you really need to crack open the wallet. I went down the #2 path a few years ago, and have since decided to replace my Carrera ECU with a full blow aftermarket engine management system. The possibilities really open up once you go down this road, but of course, it's not cheap. If your goal is 450 HP, you can achieve that by going through Protomotive, but you'll probably spend more money and have less flexibility down the road.

Here are my specs, which I'm *hoping* can make 500 rwhp at 1.0-1.2 bar:

Narrow body '87 Carrera with 3.3 L turbo cylinders & 8.0:1 compression pistons
ARP rod bolts & Supertech head studs
Electromotive TEC-3R EMS w/ distributorless twin plugged ignition
Carrera Cams
Custom AMS headers w/ T4 Flange - thick wall
Aquamist HFS-3 Water/Methanol Injection w/ 50:50 mix
Water-to-Air Intercooler
Carrera Intake Manifold
55 lb Bosch injectors with Bosch 044 Fuel Pump

Let me know if you any questions - happy to help.

[911st]

See this: Ricks Stage 2 Carrera Turbo Build 485hp

Originally Posted by spence88mph

here is more info on the build:

Rick's engine rebuild starts in Cleveland

[torresmd]

Originally Posted by polizei

Hey Steve, welcome to the insanity. Though it looks like you are no novice to forced induction from your signature!

There are a few different paths that folks on this forum have taken to turbo charge their 3.2 Carreras:

1. 325 RWHP @ .5 bar for $3-5k. No top end or bottom end changes. Replace Carrera Catalytic Converter with 930 J pipe, add a turbo, replace carrera muffler with 930 muffler & cat or go with an M&K or Rarly8 muffler, fab a charge pipe from the turbo to the Air Flow Meter (w/ a Blow Off Valve), fab plumbing from the turbo to the rear wheel well or into the engine bay for an air filter (how much rain your car will see should determine this), add a tial 46 mm waste gate with a .5 bar spring, add an oil drain canister and scavenge pump for the turbo, add a BEGI rising rate fuel pressure regulator (rrfpr - i've got one for sale) or a Protomotive rrpr, swap your stock ECU for a Protomotive Stage 1 ECU, and install an Innovate LM-1 for tuning. This is the most economic route and will give you approximately 325 rwhp. This can be done for $3-5k depending mostly on the headers, muffler & turbo you choose. Not advisable to run any more boost without lowering compression.

2. 375 RWHP @ .7 bar for $8-10k. Do #1 above, rebuild the top end of your engine, replace your Carrera pistons and cylinders with 3.3 L half finned cylinders (fully finned are better and more expensive) and no more than 8.5:1 compression pistons (a lot of different options here), replace stock rod bolts with ARP rod bolts, replace stock head studs with ARP or Supertech head studs, add a .7 bar waste gate spring & replace stock ECU with custom Protomtive chip. I ran this setup and had trouble keeping the stock rubber elbow connected from the throttle body to the AFM. Not advisable to run any more boost without cooling the intake charge.

3. 400 RWHP @ .8 bar for $11-12k. Do #2 above, add an air-to-air or water-to-air intercooler or even water/methanol injection, add a .8 bar waste gate spring & replace stock ECU with custom Protomtive chip. There are hidden costs here depending on your cooling solution. You will need to replace your Carrera tail with a turbo tail if you go down the air-to-air I/C road. After .8 bar, the Carrera fuel injectors clamp closed

4. 450 RWHP @ 1.0 bar for $13-14k. Do #3 above, replace Carrera injectors with 944 Turbo injectors, replace Carrera fuel pump with Bosch 044 fuel pump, add a 1.0 bar waste gate spring & replace stock ECU with custom Protomtive chip.

All of these options tie you down to Protomotive and leave you with no good way to really tune in your engine. #1 is the best option in terms of bang for the buck, but if you want ANY more HP, you really need to crack open the wallet. I went down the #2 path a few years ago, and have since decided to replace my Carrera ECU with a full blow aftermarket engine management system. The possibilities really open up once you go down this road, but of course, it's not cheap. If your goal is 450 HP, you can achieve that by going through Protomotive, but you'll probably spend more money and have less flexibility down the road.

Here are my specs, which I'm *hoping* can make 500 rwhp at 1.0-1.2 bar:

Narrow body '87 Carrera with 3.3 L turbo cylinders & 8.0:1 compression pistons
ARP rod bolts & Supertech head studs
Electromotive TEC-3R EMS w/ distributorless twin plugged ignition
Carrera Cams
Custom AMS headers w/ T4 Flange - thick wall
Aquamist HFS-3 Water/Methanol Injection w/ 50:50 mix
Water-to-Air Intercooler
Carrera Intake Manifold
55 lb Bosch injectors with Bosch 044 Fuel Pump

Let me know if you any questions - happy to help.

Thank you!! Lots of great info and your write-ups are very informative. I could feel your pain at times as well. As far as the Protomotive kits, I cannot find them on the protomotive website. Do they just not list them or is there another website?
Thanks again.
Steve

[torresmd]

911st: Thanks and yes I think 485 hp is just about what I am looking for.

[spence88mph]

You need to contact Todd at Protomotive, he will still have the parts, their main business is 993/996/997 turbos but no one has more knowledge and experience with 3.2 turbo conversions.

[polizei]

Originally Posted by torresmd

Thank you!! Lots of great info and your write-ups are very informative. I could feel your pain at times as well. As far as the Protomotive kits, I cannot find them on the protomotive website. Do they just not list them or is there another website?
Thanks again.
Steve

As Spence indicated their main business is 993s and forward. They had an old, crappy geocities website for our cars a while ago, but it's non existent now. Take your time to research the alternatives, and give me a holler if you'd like to chat.

[911st]

Here is the source of the intercooler above: Intercoolers

Protomotive can do the chip, Spence is a good resource, also Steve at 911CHIPS - Performance Chip Tuning for the Porsche 911 might be worth checking with to see if he can support you with a turbo chip.

[polizei]

Originally Posted by 911st

Steve at 911CHIPS - Performance Chip Tuning for the Porsche 911 might be worth checking with to see if he can support you with a turbo chip.

FYI - I checked with Steve Wong a few years ago, and he said there were just too many variables for him to provide a chip without actually dyno'ing a turbocharged Carrera. Steve (torresmd) is from AZ, so it may be more doable for him.

[911st]

I would start with the proven like the Protomotive approach.

If one wanted they could they could go to a suck through system using a Split Sec MAF conversion.

With a raising rate fuel pressure reg and the ability to map the fuel curve with the Split Sec interface, the fuel side becomes doable.

The ignition side would be retarded under boost using an MSD system with boost retard.

Or an aftermarket EFI would be even better.

Just a thought.

[torresmd]

I will call Protomotive on Monday and see what they can do for me.

[wjfk32]

I Think these guys know their stuff as well..

www.patwilliamsracing.com/sitemap.htm


Good LUCK!!

Walt

[gsmith660]

Megasquirt is your friend I went that route on a 2.7 with a 3.2 intake. You can do a whole bunch of playing around with the difference in price between proto and megasquirt and tuning is not a problem with a laptop.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by torresmd

I will call Protomotive on Monday and see what they can do for me.

Protomotive builds seems very unreliable from what I have heard. They use outdated EFI technology and their burnt up engines always turn up at other tuner's shops for rebuilds. This is just my opinion based on what I have heard from respected builders like Chris at turbokraft and Steve at rennsports and Pat Williams. Protomotive have a one size fits all approach to everything and the 3.2 does not stand up to the heat stresses normally. Their 'custom' chips are not individually tailored but mass produced. They do things to a 3.2 that Porsche never intended.

I could be wrong but I think you should talk to Chris, Steve or somebody like David at TRE before sending a bunch of money to Protomotive for their pricy bits...

I imagine other people have other opinions on the subject which is why I suggest exploring your options before committing to the first shop you talk to.

[polizei]

Originally Posted by DDDD

Protomotive builds seems very unreliable from what I have heard. They use outdated EFI technology and their burnt up engines always turn up at other tuner's shops for rebuilds. This is just my opinion based on what I have heard from respected builders like Chris at turbokraft and Steve at rennsports and Pat Williams. Protomotive have a one size fits all approach to everything and the 3.2 does not stand up to the heat stresses normally. Their 'custom' chips are not individually tailored but mass produced. They do things to a 3.2 that Porsche never intended.

I could be wrong but I think you should talk to Chris, Steve or somebody like David at TRE before sending a bunch of money to Protomotive for their pricy bits...

I imagine other people have other opinions on the subject which is why I suggest exploring your options before committing to the first shop you talk to.

+1

Steve, I imagine you're in the PHX area since your sig reads "AZ". Chris from Turbo Kraft in Tempe is the turbo king. He has a reputation for not cutting corners and being a perfectionist - exactly the guy I'd like to do my turbo conversion, except that I can't quite afford him. And I'm on the wrong side of the country. You'd have a shop that you know is going to be there when you wake up tomorrow and knows how to service your turbo conversion. Read Tom's thread on this forum - "2010: An EFI Hot Rod Odyssey". Chris is building his car.

One correction from the above post is that Protomotive does customize chips. The problem is that this is a "ballpark" and not an exact science. If you were in Protomotive's neck of the woods, you could probably get Todd to properly dyno and tune your car with great reliability. Todd's approach is to maintain as many stock components (including the ECU) as possible. This keeps installation time and cost to a minimum, plus he's got a niche market on turbo kits. Chris' approach is much different. I think it's the difference between "How can I maintain stock components to achieve X horsepower?" and "What components does this car need to achieve X horsepower?".

[torresmd]

Thanks guys and yes I know Chris and his reputation is great. He builds some insane motors. I just had my 930 turbo engine re-built at Patrick Motorsports and it was between PMS and TurboKraft.
For me it was a toss up and well lets just say I am still nauseated when I think of the final invoice from PMS. I will contact Chris and see if he can advise me while I go through this build. I have always wanted to re-build a Porsche engine and this is my chance. The problem is, I don't know what I am doing. I guess I am a bit crazy.