New TurboKraft rebuild journey

[gassian]

All,

Finally i started my engine rebuild journey with Chris @TurboKraft.
Dropped car off 2 weeks ago and we got baseline Dyno already.
Here is a video link of the dyno https://youtu.be/N4qgc8Fkmqw?si=7n4M--fp60ArYswj

and the dyno chart here.
Curious to hear what you guys think of the numbers with the current simple mods i have. Also tell me what would the outcome be after you see the plan

Current setup is (3LDZ with RaptorX mods from Charlie, 0.9bar Tial wastegate, BB single tip muffler, TurboKraft Longneck intercooler, K&N air filter, Fuel Distributor was rebuilt 2-3 years ago to oem spec, injector and plugs were replaced same time as well)


As far as what is going to be done will be full rebuild and inspection ofcourse
- Keeping CIS (yes i know, but i do prefer to keep some of the original charm/headache)
- Rarly headers with heat
- Going to Mahle 3.4 if original P&C show wear
- Upgrading Fuel Distributor and WUR for more fuel
- 964 cams
- Lightweight clutch (KEPpressure plate + Sachs sport disc/release bearing)
- ofcourse rest of things are included like new pins, connecting rod bolt, head studs, cleaning, machining ..... the default things

[mark houghton]

Cool! 325 horses, about what I would expect with your mods (similar to mine BTW, though I hold boost to .8 bar with stock 3LDZ). I could squeeze a bit more if I were to slap my 7006 back on, as well as my Tial WG with a .9 spring. Just a bunch more wrenching and first should rebuild the 7006.

Why 964 cams instead of SC? And you may want to think about a different turbo though I'm ignorant on the Raptor 3LDZ build.

Keep us posted....

[gassian]

Originally Posted by mark houghton

Cool! 325 horses, about what I would expect with your mods (similar to mine BTW, though I hold boost to .8 bar with stock 3LDZ). I could squeeze a bit more if I were to slap my 7006 back on, as well as my Tial WG with a .9 spring. Just a bunch more wrenching and first should rebuild the 7006.

Why 964 cams instead of SC? And you may want to think about a different turbo though I'm ignorant on the Raptor 3LDZ build.

Keep us posted....

hey Mark,
Nice numbers as well on your end.
The Raptor X 3LDZ has billet wheel and 10 blade turbine and it really transformed the boost and how nice and gradual it comes compared to stock on/off.
here is a thread with some pictures of this
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1110623-evergreen-3dlz-raptor.html

As far as the 964 cams, it is something that Chris suggested based on the driveability i am looking for to bring back some life in low end RPM, yet it still pulls hard on top end with those profile.
As far as turbo change, since i spent the money 2 years ago and got the rebuilt 3LDZ (also through TurboKraft) i want to see how much power it gives at end of the build before thinking of different.


What do you think the end power would be? Would 365 whp be achievable? or even 400+ ?

Thanks

[gsxrken]

You’re in good hands of course. Wise choice. The one thing I’d say is I don’t see where you’re going to be getting much more power. The 964 cams will wake it up for sure, but you otherwise seem to be doing a refresh. (I don’t blame you, I rebuilt mine in 2020 mainly to address leaks, other than valve guides it didn’t really “need” to be rebuilt). I did go with SC cams while I was in there.
You have good fueling now for your power level, but the headers and cams may allow you to turn up the boost and require fuel mods. More boost, more power.

Only thing I’d suggest is ask Chris about porting your intake port and go with his wider aluminum injector blocks. Gets rid of the old plastic probably-cracked ones and eliminates future vacuum leaks

Keep us posted!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by gassian

All,

Finally i started my engine rebuild journey with Chris @TurboKraft.
Dropped car off 2 weeks ago and we got baseline Dyno already.
Here is a video link of the dyno https://youtu.be/N4qgc8Fkmqw?si=7n4M--fp60ArYswj

and the dyno chart here.
Curious to hear what you guys think of the numbers with the current simple mods i have. Also tell me what would the outcome be after you see the plan

Current setup is (3LDZ with RaptorX mods from Charlie, 0.9bar Tial wastegate, BB single tip muffler, TurboKraft Longneck intercooler, K&N air filter, Fuel Distributor was rebuilt 2-3 years ago to oem spec, injector and plugs were replaced same time as well)


As far as what is going to be done will be full rebuild and inspection ofcourse
- Keeping CIS (yes i know, but i do prefer to keep some of the original charm/headache)
- Rarly headers with heat
- Going to Mahle 3.4 if original P&C show wear
- Upgrading Fuel Distributor and WUR for more fuel
- 964 cams
- Lightweight clutch (KEPpressure plate + Sachs sport disc/release bearing)
- ofcourse rest of things are included like new pins, connecting rod bolt, head studs, cleaning, machining ..... the default things

by far the biggest HP gains for me were going to an electronic ignition that can be much more flexibly mapped

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by gassian

hey Mark,
Nice numbers as well on your end.
The Raptor X 3LDZ has billet wheel and 10 blade turbine and it really transformed the boost and how nice and gradual it comes compared to stock on/off.
here is a thread with some pictures of this
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1110623-evergreen-3dlz-raptor.html
What do you think the end power would be? Would 365 whp be achievable? or even 400+ ?Thanks

Headers and a set of 3.4 P&C's should run you close to 365 I imagine but I'm no expert (surely Chris could give you a ballpark number). Cams and headers will help it breathe better and reduce turbo lag, and if you're having the fuel distributor tweaked as well, then you could probably bump your boost up to 1.0. Personally I think these cars can handle 1.0 no problem providing good gas and timing retard is working as intended.

[gassian]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

You’re in good hands of course. Wise choice. The one thing I’d say is I don’t see where you’re going to be getting much more power. The 964 cams will wake it up for sure, but you otherwise seem to be doing a refresh. (I don’t blame you, I rebuilt mine in 2020 mainly to address leaks, other than valve guides it didn’t really “need” to be rebuilt). I did go with SC cams while I was in there.
You have good fueling now for your power level, but the headers and cams may allow you to turn up the boost and require fuel mods. More boost, more power.

Only thing I’d suggest is ask Chris about porting your intake port and go with his wider aluminum injector blocks. Gets rid of the old plastic probably-cracked ones and eliminates future vacuum leaks

Keep us posted!

Thanks for your input

One thing i forgot to mention in my OP was also lightweight clutch going to be done as well. But yes it is mostly refresh, addressing the couple small oil seeps.
My hope for power was from header, cam, extra fuel and possibly the displacement increase. Maybe we increase the boost or turbo change too if i get desperate.
Chris is going to put the TK billet aluminum injector block.
Let me ask him about the Intake porting.

[gassian]

Originally Posted by mark houghton

Headers and a set of 3.4 P&C's should run you close to 365 I imagine but I'm no expert (surely Chris could give you a ballpark number). Cams and headers will help it breathe better and reduce turbo lag, and if you're having the fuel distributor tweaked as well, then you could probably bump your boost up to 1.0. Personally I think these cars can handle 1.0 no problem providing good gas and timing retard is working as intended.

exactly, i am in full trust mode with Chris..
he stated 365whp after the build and that was before seeing my baseline dyno

I am not trying to chase high HP type of build here honestly but just curious on what you guys think.
Saw this similar build https://youtu.be/0Uu-y-pYCkM?si=Tk1fJGRxagFRXIM2 and stated 438whp
Anyways we shall find out in couple months

[Alan L]

If you are going to Al injector blocks (good move) I am almost certain Chris will talk to you about how far to open them up. Which then means opening the intake manifold ports and head intakes to match. I strongly suspect that is a conversation not too far off = a bit more HP.
Alan

[mikedsilva]

Any ideas on what is done to the fuel distributors when they are 'tweaked"?

[Alan L]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

Any ideas on what is done to the fuel distributors when they are 'tweaked"?

Hmm, subscribed.
Alan

[gassian]

Originally Posted by Alan L

If you are going to Al injector blocks (good move) I am almost certain Chris will talk to you about how far to open them up. Which then means opening the intake manifold ports and head intakes to match. I strongly suspect that is a conversation not too far off = a bit more HP.
Alan

Added that to my list of topics i will discuss with Chris
doubt this is in the list of things he had in the build

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

Any ideas on what is done to the fuel distributors when they are 'tweaked"?

Isn't the tweak when they rebuild the Fuel distributor for increased fuel flow? Also they call it the 007 mod i think
but maybe someone else can elaborate on what they do internally exactly

[gassian]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

by far the biggest HP gains for me were going to an electronic ignition that can be much more flexibly mapped

your signature shows CIS still. DId you switch to EFI?
how much whp you got with your listed mods?

[Alan L]

Isn't the tweak when they rebuild the Fuel distributor for increased fuel flow? Also they call it the 007 mod i think
but maybe someone else can elaborate on what they do internally exactly[/QUOTE]

I am using one of those heads. Supposed to be 10% more flow - but no idea how.
Alan

[krasuskyp]

Cool journey, congrats on taking the plunge!

What JUMPS out at me isn't your power, but your "curve" - if one can call it that!??? LOL. You currently have an entire 1500 of usable power. Man that makes it pretty tough to drive IME/O. I'd be less chasing more power and more chasing more USABLE power. The headers WILL open this up which is good, as will 3.4 - but you're only doing that if there's wear. How many miles currently?

And 964 cams add to top end, but you're looking to wake up bottom end grunt - consider SC's alternatively.

Porting and any machine work adds $$$ up quickly, just so you know 8)

The lightweight FW and/or pressure plate will help spool / revs for sure.

For reference, I'm 2.5yrs & 10k mi into one of Chris' builds - a sympathetic / OPTIMIZED rebuild. No fancy machine work, save for twinplug. That, coupled with crankfire Electromotive ignition, were GAME CHANGERS.

Also did the FlowTech fuel head rebuild, also unsure of "what, specifically" they do. I think i was told it's rebuilt and PORTED, so machined passageways.

Chris talked against LWFW, as they warp under heavy torque, clatter, etc. Went instead with Ruf CTR clutch / aluminum pressure plate.

With Powerhaus headers, full bay longneck IC, 0.96bar, adj WUR, K&N cone, balanced rods, filmcoated pistons, ARP hardware, RL8hooligan, GT35 replica, SC cams. TK inj blocks - I'm seeing ~400/400atw.

MOST IMPORTANTLY... an EXTREMELY driveable and ohso verrrrry HAPPY RUNNING car. It is... soooo... sososososososososo goooooooooood now. SO GOOD.

HTH, good luck with it all - exciting stuff and WELL WORTH the time energy effort resources, all day every day. As we all know, Chris very much is... ***amazing***

[gassian]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

Cool journey, congrats on taking the plunge!

What JUMPS out at me isn't your power, but your "curve" - if one can call it that!??? LOL. You currently have an entire 1500 of usable power. Man that makes it pretty tough to drive IME/O. I'd be less chasing more power and more chasing more USABLE power. The headers WILL open this up which is good, as will 3.4 - but you're only doing that if there's wear. How many miles currently?

And 964 cams add to top end, but you're looking to wake up bottom end grunt - consider SC's alternatively.

Porting and any machine work adds $$$ up quickly, just so you know 8)

The lightweight FW and/or pressure plate will help spool / revs for sure.

For reference, I'm 2.5yrs & 10k mi into one of Chris' builds - a sympathetic / OPTIMIZED rebuild. No fancy machine work, save for twinplug. That, coupled with crankfire Electromotive ignition, were GAME CHANGERS.

Also did the FlowTech fuel head rebuild, also unsure of "what, specifically" they do. I think i was told it's rebuilt and PORTED, so machined passageways.

Chris talked against LWFW, as they warp under heavy torque, clatter, etc. Went instead with Ruf CTR clutch / aluminum pressure plate.

With Powerhaus headers, full bay longneck IC, 0.96bar, adj WUR, K&N cone, balanced rods, filmcoated pistons, ARP hardware, RL8hooligan, GT35 replica, SC cams. TK inj blocks - I'm seeing ~400/400atw.

MOST IMPORTANTLY... an EXTREMELY driveable and ohso verrrrry HAPPY RUNNING car. It is... soooo... sososososososososo goooooooooood now. SO GOOD.

HTH, good luck with it all - exciting stuff and WELL WORTH the time energy effort resources, all day every day. As we all know, Chris very much is... ***amazing***

Hey Paul,
great input, let me try to answer your questions and share my thoughts
My car has 92k miles, i am curious to see your dyno chart curve after your work and see the delta on what you meant. I am guessing you meant the huge fuel dump dip from the chart you talking about right?
Regarding the cams, Chris input to me was the 964 is the best choice to wake the car down low and to pull hard up top.
Clutch wise:
Here is what is happening: 930 LIGHTWEIGHT CLUTCH PACKAGE, includes
* KEP lightweight aluminum high-strength pressure plate
* Sachs Sport clutch disc, high friction slotted organic lining with
spring hub
* Sachs release bearing

I can ask him about the RUF CTR clutch, maybe it is not available anymore? no clue

Will also ask him about the twinplug plus crankfire Electromotive ignition that you mentioned and see what he says and cost
Man it is adding up quickly

Any videos of your car you can share?

[dos531]

Just make sure you never drive an EFI 930 or youll be full of regret.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by Alan L

Isn't the tweak when they rebuild the Fuel distributor for increased fuel flow? Also they call it the 007 mod i think
but maybe someone else can elaborate on what they do internally exactly

I am using one of those heads. Supposed to be 10% more flow - but no idea how.
Alan[/QUOTE]

I recently rebuilt a 3.0SC engine to 3.2 capacity. The fuel head needed to be rebuilt anyway and when discussed with the shop they said the would give it their standard 'power adder' mod ... allegedly 10% more fuel. On the test stand, it ran pig rich everywhere. AFR was 10-11 and blowing black smoke... they said they modify them by changing the springs in the fuel head.. I have never had one apart so cannot comment on it but they ended up rebuilding it back to stock specs and the engine is happier now.

I was hoping someone would have more of an idea here, than i did... but perhaps shops dont wish to disclose that info due to commercial sensitivity.

[mikedsilva]

This guy seems to have some ideas...

[Black_Hat]

I had my 145 fuel head modified by Brian Bodart
RarlyL8 Motorsports.

I consulted with Brian before ordering, he was super helpful before and after the sale.

here is some of what he said:

" if you are still using the OEM -145 FD with Lambda there will not be enough flow to feed your mods. The modified units at full open adjustment will feed about 500whp."
" Lambda is deleted with this mod. The fuel line connections are the same as the earlier Euro system and tuning is also the same."
"To move that volume requires at least one 044 fuel pump. I'm going to assume you may have already swapped the front pump for a bigger one. As you know EFI is more efficient that CIS, its not just about feeding the fire but controlling the feed. The more precise feed of EFI will extract more power than CIS, all other things being equal. That being said, a nicely tuned CIS will drive similar to EFI and get decent fuel mileage as well."

No details about how this is done other than a general understanding and this is proprietary... don't want to post details as Brian is such a great vendor and Poster here.

I have not had the car on a dyno but it is seriously fast.

I have a adjustable WUR and a pierson valve that delays the onset of enrichment (4k RPM) controlled by my electromotive XDI2 ....I have the rev limiter set really low so I don't go lean under boost. The motor was built to be a torque motor not rev.

I have a wide band AFR meter with logging.