Logging boost with LM-1 & LMA-2

[billjam]

With my Innovate LM-1 and LMA-2 (RPM converter) I can log AFR and RPM.
I would also like to log boost, and maybe fuel pressure.

For logging boost, a connection to the standard boost sensor might be an option, but I think 12 volts at the sensor might be a potential problem (no pun intended) for the 0-5 volt range of the LMA-2.
There are some instructions on the Innovate site for reducing sensor voltage to the 0-5v range by adding some resistors into the circuit but before I embark on that route (and have to ask my kids to refresh my knowledge on the electronic principles involved), I’d like to know if anyone here has actually done this. If so, how?
(I have asked the question on the Innovate forum but the number of 930 nuts there seems to be limited.)
I have seen a few comments on this board about the perceived inaccuracy of the standard boost gauge - is this a gauge or sensor issue, or both?
If using the standard boost sensor isn’t practical, can anyone direct me to a pressure sensor that would do the job in conjunction with the LMA-2.

As far as fuel pressure is concerned, is there anything to be gained by logging this?
I figure it might prove interesting and might be useful for troubleshooting.

Bill

[boostfix]

Bill,

The picture below is an excerpt from the LMA-2 manual. I am posting this to give more info to the folks with electronics knowledge on the board.
If I read this correctly you need to check if the porsche boost sensor circuit has an output impedance less than 33 kOhm. Not sure how to do this though.

[beepbeep]

Why not use LMA-3 (AuxBox) instead?

[billjam]

I have put a hold on buying the LM-1 and LMA-2 (RPM converter) until I get a clearer picture of how all this stuff is installed and used.

I am making quite a few changes to my car at present including turbo, adj. WUR and RPM solenoid valve so I really want to get the AFRs right before I undo all my good work on a Sunday drive.
All I really planned to do initially was install an AFR gauge.

After reading more about all this Innovate stuff both here and on the Innovate forum, my interest has been aroused in going a bit further. It looks like it could be quite interesting to be able to log all sorts of other stuff as well as AFR (not necessarily useful, but interesting none-the-less).
Hence the planned step up from an AFR gauge to LM-1 / LMA-2.

However since then, I have looked more closely at the LM-1 / LMA-3 combination as Goran suggested, and I am now also looking at the LM-2 as an option as well.

Let me summarise my understanding of a few key points that are relevant to me with each system - please correct me if I have it wrong …

LM-1 and LMA-2

• no built-in boost sensor
• LMA-2 needs to be mounted somewhere, where?
• I believe that the LM-1 is only plugged into LMA-2 when tuning or logging data?

LM-1 and LMA-3includes boost sensor

• includes dual-axis accelerometer
• can log ignition timing with some extra work
• LMA-3 needs to be mounted somewhere, where?
• I believe that the LM-1 is only plugged into LMA-3 when tuning or logging data?

LM-2

• no built-in boost sensor (can maybe use the standard sensor with a bit of extra work)
• completely portable - but this means that there must be a collection of cables to plug in whenever I want to use it?
• USB computer connection

I know whichever way I go here, for a car that will only see a track three or four times a year it will be overkill, but I’m starting to think “what the hell, let’s do it!”.
But do what??

I’d be really interested in hearing how some of you use these tools and where and how you’ve set them up.
Another issue to consider is the fact that the LM-1 is now superseded by the LM-2.

[NathanUK]

I bought the XD-16 kit and when I get it up and running will get the DL-32.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTS_grid.php

[billjam]

I'm going to keep bumping this damn thread until I get some response!!!
Is this subject so boring that you have all dropped off to sleep?

C'mon guys, I'm sure there are plenty of Innovate users out there who have an opinion on what works best for them. I am just starting on this part of the learning curve for 930 tuning, so any comments will be appreciated (and probably save me some time, and see my hard-earned $ spent more effectively! ).

I'll make it a bit simpler, there's two main areas where I'm looking for input ...

• some ideas for mounting the various units (keeping in mind we are talking daily driver here). This may raise doubts about the practicality of some options.
• some input from someone who has hooked up to the standard boost sensor (with voltage splitting) on how to set this up and calibrate it. If this isn't really practical, it narrows the options somewhat to a unit with built-in MAP sensor (LMA-3).

I'm all ears ...

[jwasbury]

I think the answer will depend on exactly what you want.

Do you have a laptop? If yes, then you could get the LC-1 and use the laptop for logging.

Do you want to have a permanent gauge mounted in the cockpit? I did. For me the LM-1 (or 2) didn't make sense if I was going to have a permanent installation. With the LM, you've got to put that handheld unit somewhere. LC-1 is smaller and easy to mount out of sight in the engine compartment.

LC-1 plus gauge is $289, aux box (LMA-3) is $249. Total $538 and you have afr, rpm, map, plus the acelerometer and cht sensors built into the auxbox. Of course you will need to plug in the laptop to do log sessions.

LM-2 $479 - gets you afr and rpm, and the ability to log without bringing the laptop on board. If you want to add the aux box or a permanent guage, add $249 or $99, respectively.

You've seen my install thread for the LC-1. I am pretty sure that I can easily add the aux box without running any additional wires into the cockpit. The aux box can be jacked into the serial in on the LC-1, and then its signal will be added to the log-chain and passed to the serial out on the LC-1 (which is already in the cockpit of my car). Other than that, the aux box will need a boost signal (easy to t off of one of several vac/boost lines in the engine compartment) and rpm signal (either inductive clamp, or the tach signal wire off of the CDI box).

For me, the LC-1 was the right choice because:

1) I wanted a permanent gauge
2) I have a laptop and don't mind bringing it along when I want to log data

[356-930]

Originally Posted by billjam

With my Innovate LM-1 and LMA-2 (RPM converter) I can log AFR and RPM. I would also like to log boost, and maybe fuel pressure.

I installed and use the Zeitronix ZT-2 data logger and its associated sensors. $279 including Bosch Wideband Oxygen sensor. Boost ($109) and EGT ($89) sensors sold separately. It logs and reproduces on a laptop, in a linear/simultaneous graph, Lambda, AFR, EGT, RPM, Boost and Throttle Position. The auxiliary on-board digital gage (ZR-2) ($139) can be switched (small push button on the display face) to display Lambda, AFR, EGT, RPM, or boost. Handy to have constant access to AFR and EGT at the touch of a button just to keep an eye on things.
There is a "user input" channel that accepts a 0-5Vdc signal. If you can find a fuel pressure sensor, 0-100+ psi that will give a linear 0-5Vdc signal, you can log fuel pressure.
I found the Zeitronix system easy to install. It's easy to use/understand and has been very useful.
I’ve seen input on the forum that the Innovate unit is better because the wideband sensor can be recalibrated. I don't believe the Zeitronix system has this capability.
The Zeitronix website: http://www.zeitronix.com/index.html

[cole930]

Bill,

I'm a little late to be jumping in here but thought you might still be hunting an answer.
I am presently putting all the parts together to install a LM-1 and also want to log boost along with afr and rpm. I am going to use the LM-1, LMA-2, and a GM 2 bar MAP sensor.
The GM Map sensors come in 1,2, or 3 Bar and they will give you the 0-5 VDC output required to interface directly into the LMA-2.
When choosing the correct sensor be sure to realize you are starting with 1 Bar of Atmospheric pressure before you add boost. So if your running 1 Bar of boost you will need a 2 Bar sensor.
You can find them on EvilBay by the thousands and are very inexpensive used ie. $5-$20 the correct GM 3 wire connectors can be found there also for about $8.
Hope this is helpful. I have other information on installation, interfacing, and GM part numbers if you need it.

Cole

[fredmeister]

I currently use the aux box and LM-1 along with a XD-16 gage to display in the cockpit. The XD-16 gage currently displays boost pressure which gets signal from the MAP sensor off the aux box. This serves as a secondary check against the large 2.5 inch VDO gage in the clock location in the dash. It is funny that the VDO gage is still fairly inaccurate reading 0.15 bar or so lower than the XD-16 unit which should be dead nuts. Could this be the pressure drop across the throttle body?
In answer to your mounting question: I mounted the auxbox on the floor behind the passenger seat partially covered by the seat. If you have people in the back you gotta worry about them stepping on it, but I don't have that problem and this allows me to get easy access to it.
I run a hose from the intake manifold thru one of the open access holes in the bulkhead where the shift rod connects to the tranny. There are a few large holes in the bulkhead there that allow you to run the AFR gage wiring and the boost hose without cutting more holes in the car. I drilled a small hole in the removeable cover for the access to the shift rod there and run the wiring and the boost hose thru there and to the aux box.
I have not logged data yet with the LM-1 because I have not hooked an O2 sensor yet. I need to get bungs welded to my muffler first.
Should be easy though as the LM-1 is supposed to connect directly to the aux box for this reason. Then I can convert the XD-16 to read A/F ratio. WHich is probably gonna force me to go out and get the Leask adjustable warm up reg to keep the A/F under safe limits.
Good luck.

[billjam]

I eventually went for LC-1 and an LMA-3 (aux box) with an AFR gauge (G5 type).
In addition, I have an LM-1 to log data but haven't had time to get it up and running.

The aux box is on the floor towards the front of the passenger seat. I can get at it there if the seat is all the way back.
I had to extend the standard wiring from the LC-1 and run some additional wires to hook it all up.
I also ran a separate hose for boost from the manifold to the aux box and continued it up to the dash-mounted boost gauge (in place of clock).
All the wiring and the boost hose were run through the big hole in the rear bulkhead just in front of the fuel pump.

I'll try and upload the wiring diagram that I have made up for my records. It might be of interest to anyone starting out.
And of course a few pics as well ...

[billjam]

Forgot the wiring diagram ...

[gumba]

Heres another gauge option. The LC-1 can be re calibrated to be used with other gauges. (This also allows you to fine tune the gauge if it's reading off) I use a dual a/f gauge by Westach to monitor each bank in our n/a race car. The gauge fits in the clock opening with a little work. You could have them make a dual or triple gauge with the gauges of your choosing.

I also looked into installing an electric fuel pressure gauge. Westach had 2 sensors available, one for $60 that might work, and one for $200 that would work (who gets it).

When I use the LM-1 & rpm converter I connect the rpm converter to a lead off the back of the tach since only temporally.

[beepbeep]

Good choice. I'm glad that you went for whole package.

[cole930]

billjam,

Thanks for the thread man it was a great help !!!!!!!!!

Cole

[equality72521]

Bill, what program did you use to make that wiring diagram?

[billjam]

Originally Posted by equality72521

Bill, what program did you use to make that wiring diagram?

Mark,
Sorry I didn't pick up on your query a bit earlier. I use Microsoft Visio for this type of diagram.

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

For me, the LC-1 was the right choice because:

1) I wanted a permanent gauge
2) I have a laptop and don't mind bringing it along when I want to log data

+1. IMHO, it's all you need for a street driven machine. If tracking, heavily modified, long runs on boost, then you may want the additional information. Otherwise, i'ts just too much information.