Just my humble opinion but I say get rid of that exhaust system. It's literally an assault on the eyes.:( At the very least switch it out for the Euro system.

Just over 20k on the ODO. I am keeping all stock parts and limiting what I do to bolt on upgrades just in case one day I want it completely stock. Although you never know there are no plans to sell this car...prefer to will to my daughters. They can duke it out over who gets wife.com's C2 Targa and who gets my 930.

$300 is the sweet spot for that part...would order it for sure at that price. I'll keep searching. Pretty sure even if I put the car back to stock one day I would never put the TRs back on the car so I'm gonna look hard for a TR replacement and consider that better than stock.

This 930 bug has pretty well screwed up my work day while I figure things out and think I have a good plan now.

1. Get TR replacement pipes(hopefully not $600 version)and install with current HE
2. Later this year get Brian's sport muffler
3. Get Brian's headers next year just before smog
3. Smog my car April of next year and drive home and install headers :D

Nobody is saying anything good about the TRs and I would hate to have something major go wrong because I left them in there. It seems like the right thing to do and the right time to do it.

Of course I'll probably change my mind by tomorrow :rolleyes:'

Appreciate all the opinions and offers!

I thought about that and even have a generous offer here from Richard for his complete system. But, everyone ('86-'89) is moving away from that system in favor of other custom options. I'm afraid I'll buy one of these and then just want to upgrade again.

The Euro exhaust also forces me to move some oil lines I believe and I'm already in over my head on this project. Remember I didn't have a 17mm box end wrench and didn't know what a Thermal Reactor was last Sat! :D

I'm still scared to death of what's coming this Sunday with attempting to remove the TRs. If I get to the point like James Brown where I'm cutting and drilling studs....I just hope he has a youtube video.

With the TR delete pipes I can atleast fix the heat issue which could negatively affect my engine, still pass smog, and then work towards the ultimate solution in a nice set of headers from Brian.

That's my thinking right now anyway.

Brian, Good to see you're making progress. I started following it over on Rennlist and it's nice to see you here. What you decide to do will depend on you're budget - both time and money. Getting rid of the TR's would be a great move but like you said, going with either the later AKA "Euro" exhaust or headers turn your small project into a larger one. The TR replacement pipes may be a good way to move in the right direction without breaking the bank or making for a much bigger project than you bargained for. Then at least the car is operational while you save up and acquire the bits for the next phase. I went down the same path with my '76 and ended up with the later stock exhaust which I'm very happy with. I have a pair of the W pipes that would fit and I would give you but like Jacob's, one is cracked and would require welding. I assume that it could be repaired by a competent welder. -John

Thanks my German Waffle friend :) Will PM you. Pretty sure I can find someone to weld them back into shape and works nicely as an inexpensive way to get the TRs out. I went for a run this morning to contemplate this project and I think my current plan is pretty sound.

Last night I removed the left HE very easily and access to both valve covers is fantastic now. However, I started to try and remove the air injectors and that did not go well. They are extremely tight and the TRs are really wreaking havoc on access. I'm going to get a stubby 14mm to see if that will help.

If they are just too difficult I'll have to deal with the TRs first and then the injectors after. Also realized I don't have a wrench big enough to deal with removal of the EGR. I'm going to go buy a larger adjustable which will hopefully do the trick. If that's the wrong tool someone please chime in.

Slow progress last night but on the bright side I didn't break anything. I did manage to hit all the TR nuts with another round of PB Blaster. Need to go to Home Depot tonight and get one of those high temp torches. Any words of wisdom/caution when using one? I've only ever used a propane torch on plumbing. Never under my car in tight spaces. Will have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

Thanks.
Brian

damn, your right... oh well

Brian, Got your PM and replied back to you. Why are you contemplating removing the air injectors?

I've removed the air pump injectors easily with a 14mm crow foot wrench on a 3/8" extension and ratchet while the heat exchangers are in place. Harbor Freight tools has decent 3/8" drive crow foot wrench sets for less than $10.

Some PB blaster helps them loosen up. Heck, in a pinch even coco cola works for that because it has phosphoric acid in it...

If you don't need them in there, get em out asap because after time and boost runs the ends melt and break off from red hot exhaust heat and turbulance and then they get carried into the spinning turbine wheel in the turbo and it turns into a bad day.

Alright....looks like I don't have the right tool. Will take care of that tonight.

Reason I wanted to remove the injectors was to remove my leaking return tubes. Cannot get them out while the TRs and injectors are in the way. Either could remove TRs or injectors and would be able to remove the return tubes. Amazingly the return tubes are just a hair too big for removal with all the other metal in the way. Thought injectors would be easy and I could do a few of the oil return tubes before I can work on the TRs on Sunday.

I know I could crush them for removal but I already tested the fit of the new ones and will be same problem going back in.

Started thinking today if I am removing the TRs anyway then I really don't need to remove the injectors and I can do the return tubes once the TRs are out. You confirmed that by asking the question :)

I'll probably just get the necessary tools anyhow just in case. Thanks JFairman for the instructions.

Waffle, will check my pm's later. Actually working today a bit :)

Here is a thread on the Euro exhaust system bleach.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/550634-wanted-advice-930-exhaust.html

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I have three sets of stock turbo exhaust manifolds W type complete just bolt up I live in palm springs area 250.00 complete I will toss a stock muffler in there also.they are taken off cars that went to headers over the years and sitting upstairs at my shop in the bone yard. if you want them just pm me for some pics.

I guess the $300 w pipes I saw may have been the non turbo. I see the $600 now. Must be the turbo tax for the extra stud hole.

This may help.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/587498-fs-930-exhaust-parts-w-pipes.html

So I went and purchased a Mapp torch this weekend with the separate oxygen tank. Planned on getting down to business on the 12 nuts attaching the thermal reactors to the head studs.

Being a rookie I was a bit suprised when the 9 inch flame lept out of the tip when I lit it! I had no luck at my first try that afternoon. Didn't help that I kept hearing neighbors scream at the Bears-Packers game and kept having to stop to see what was happening. Anyhow, the issue was I was thinking I needed a yellow flame with the blue flame inside. Everytime I tried to turn up the oxygen the whole thing would blow out. I was using the yellow flame with gas turned up but not enough oxygen and managed to make everything black and hot....but not cherry red. Plus here I am with this 9-10 inch flame licking through the bottom of the car making smoke and basically making me nervous.

Didn't help that it was windy and I think that was causing some of the issues with the flame going out as well. Trying to adjust the gas, oxygen, lie under the car, big yellow flame....I was wondering whether I should have just taken the car to the shop. I started to get pretty frustrated so I quit and went to teach my daughter to ride her new 2 wheeler bike.

Came back later in the evening when it was calm and having talked with a couple of other Pelicanites. With their words of wisdom I managed to finally learn how to get the torch with the hot blue flame. I think earlier I was turning up the oxygen too fast. Like someone blowing on the flame it was putting the flame out. Once I turned the dial slower it kicked in to the super hot blue only flame and I was then able to easily get the nut cherry red...maybe like 1-2 minutes of heat. At that point it loosened very easily with a 13mm wrench.

I quit after that single nut as I was happy to figure out the process and at least get one removed. I'll tackle the rest this week. I'm sure to many of you this is all second nature but I don't get to play with too many Mapp torches when caring for servers ;) So for me it was all a new adventure.

Not too many pics as I really didn't do squat. Here's one of the Mapp torch. And another of that all important first head stud nut I have ever removed! Like a flippin' trophy or something.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295889091.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295889114.jpg

Thanks Oilonly....I'm still contemplating how to proceed with the exhaust. For now I'm putting on the TR replacement 'headers' until I do more research on my options. I understand better now that the Euro exhaust option may be a good one. I'm just not sure what I want to do yet.

Thanks for the offer Sam....I have a few options right now but with definitely let you know if I need them.

Last night managed to get 4 more nuts off of the TRs sans heat. Pretty sure I could have removed the rest as well but I don't have the correct tool(s). Will be heading to Sears today to hopefully find the correct tool to reach the remaining nuts. Think I need a boxend 13mm that's bent near the box end.

For the record I used a 13mm standard straight boxend to remove 5 of the nuts so far:

Right outside rear
Right outside middle
Right inside middle

Left inside rear
Left outside front.

With the exception of one of the nuts so far where I used heat the 4 last night came off very easily. Most likely due to the fact that the underside is pretty clean and I believe the daily spraying with PB Blaster is having an effect. They just look like they want to come off and I think the PB Blaster is working its way into the threads over time. I've been spraying them for over a week now.

It also appears that the left inside middle and left inside front are going to be tough without removing the return tubes (which are both leaking and need to be removed anyway). I will need to crush them to get them out as they don't fit with the TR and air injectors in the way.

Can anyone recommend a process/product so I can start cleaning the underside and parts? I'm guessing there are better and not as good cleaning products (similar to wd40 vs PB Blaster). Do I use a wire brush or something softer?

Funny you mention cleaning bleachii. I have been cleaning up things as I get ready for a new turbo/intercooler and exhaust install. I removed my bumper and lower side fenders to get real good access at everything.I have gone cleaning nuts! I'm using variety of stuff I have around don't know if it's the best., WD40 Armor All, some degrease product, warm soapy water and my wife's kitchen sponges with the green scouring side.

Tried to get some work done last night but ended up staring at the car for about 45 minutes before ending up at the neighbors having one too many Dark N Stormies. I did hit the store last night for another 13mm box wrench to custom bend today. Also a hacksaw in case I decided to cut it.

Used the MAPP torch to heat the wrench and bend the box end for a more custom fit. Was able to use no heat and just this custom wrench to remove:

Left inside front
Left inside middle
Right inside front

Then needed heat and a combo of 13mm 1/4 drive adjustable socket on a 6 inch extension and 13mm box to remove the Right outside front.

Heat and custom wrench to remove the Right inside rear. Right TR removed at this point.

Heat and open end 13mm to remove the Left outside rear and Left outside middle (most difficult of the 12).

Chased a few Fat Tires as a reward for getting past this stage. While it wasn't that difficult I wouldn't call it easy either. Especially for a first time project. All the trips to the store to research and get the correct tools really slows down the process. Plus I have a ways to go. Lots of cleaning coming up and the return tubes which are very accessible now.

Think I've been putting in 3-4 days a week for anywhere from 1-4 hours since i started. That doesn't include research and Internet time.

Appreciate all the help. Thanks OilOnly for the cleaning tips.

Thermal Reactors
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296350840.jpg


Fat Tire and a Broken Porsche
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296350869.jpg

Wish I had more time each day to work on the car but just can't seem to get enough time. Anyhow, today I cleaned the right heat exchanger and I'm happy with the result. Not perfect but not really a part I was looking to get perfect. Comparison pic attached.

Removed the second return tube from the left side as well and removed the valve cover on the left side just to see how easy/hard it would be. Actually very easy with a 13mm socket with only 2 nuts requiring an adjustable socket to fit. I reattached the cover loosely to keep contaminants out until I repair one night this week. Did some basic cleaning on the underside but need to do quite a bit more. Also planning to clean both valve covers.

Couple of observations:

1. 2 of the valve cover nuts were very loose. Still required a socket but it didn't take much to fully loosen them. The 101 projects book discusses this as a possible cause of the leaks and maybe thats all it was. But, the leak appears to be away from these nuts so not sure in this case. I have the valve cover gasket replacement kit from Pelican so obviously I'm replacing the gaskets.

2. The circlips on a few of the return tubes were not properly in place. There is a groove and two were not in that groove. They didnt seem to allow the tubes to telescope the wrong way but there is a groove clearly for the circlip. Not sure if they were installed wrong but it appears to me that they are not technically installed correct. I had them replaced many years ago so they were not the original non telescoping tubes.

3. I have a set of the pliers that allow you to manipulate the circlips but mine have the straight tips. Because I am coming at the circlips from underneath it would be better to have the pliers with the metal tips that turn 90 degrees. Not a big deal.



Heat Exchangers - One Clean - One not so much
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296429035.jpg


Left side oil return tubes missing from the picture.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296429140.jpg


Fantastic access to the left valve cover.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296429179.jpg

Nice work my friend I wish you well with this project.