3.2 Turbo conversion - use stock Heat exchangers, or what??

[baloo]

I need some opinions and input on heat exchangers/headers for this 3.2L turbo conversion that I'm lining up.
Budget and 320hp performance are my concerns.

My objective is:
1) Get 320hp or so;
2) Do it with minimal down-time (not another 6-12 months project);
3) Keep the cost under $3500, without getting sidetracked "while I'm there".
4) Have heat and AC in the car.

I presently have a purportedly-rebuilt 1987 3.2L engine -- with headers, no heat exchangers.

So, because I would like heat, and I do not presently have a connection between the engine and the actual turbo, the dilemma I am facing is:

A) Buy stock HEX and just use the existing parts and get this thing done most expeditiously, but with heat; and just live with the pronouncement that the stock HEXs are inferior to most anything else (per Pelican posts); OR

B) Buy one of the OBX eBay headers with heat boxes and self-contained J-pipe, and try to sell the present headers and J-pipe to recoup the cost; OR

C) Buy one of the OBX eBay headers WITHOUT heat boxes, but with self-contained J-pipe, and construct some heat boxes myself, and try to sell the present headers and J-pipe to recoup the cost of OBX's; OR

D) Get a J-pipe custom made to connect the two ends of my present headers, and make some heat boxes myself -- and sell the Porsche j-pipe to recoup some cost; OR

E) Find some used deal on Pelican or Craigslist that gives me heat and efficiency, and sell the stock J-pipe to recoup some money; OR

F) ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS to avoid having to learn by experience, the hard way?

Thanks for any input.

[911TT33]

Cheapest off-the-shelf, bolt-on solution would be the GoingSuperFast headers with heat exchangers.

There are obviously better quality ones out there such as FabSpeed and B&B but expect to pay over $2.5k as opposed to $1k.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by 911TT33

Cheapest off-the-shelf, bolt-on solution would be the GoingSuperFast headers with heat exchangers.

There are obviously better quality ones out there such as FabSpeed and B&B but expect to pay over $2.5k as opposed to $1k.

Went to their website. Quite informative, and prices are very competitive.

Would like to stop in their shop in HongKong, or China, or is it Japan? The shipping address is Oregon, but the pics of their shop is definitely the Orient. I wonder if their experience comes from trial and error, or if they had formal training or mentorship in a dealership.

Definitely is on my list, and puts me right at my $3500 ceiling.

[LJ851]

Have you considered 993 HEs? They only need flanges rotated on one side and then bolt right up.

[Jim2]

320 HP.... stock 3.2/3.3 euro exchangers, 930 "J" pipe. No mods needed. Bolt up and will be just fine for 320 HP.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by LJ851

Have you considered 993 HEs? They only need flanges rotated on one side and then bolt right up.

LJ,
Yes, I saw some Pelican posts about using 993 HEX, and I like the idea -- very direct plumbing and clean looking. I also checked out Jim's pics of his 993 exhaust system with single turbo -- that is a masterpiece. Excellent work.

However, my problem is the Y-tube that connects the two 993 HEXs and feeds into the turbo. Is there anyone who makes and sells these connections?

I'll post pics of Jim's fabrication.

[baloo]

Pics of Jim's 993 HEX with turbo.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by Jim2

320 HP.... stock 3.2/3.3 euro exchangers, 930 "J" pipe. No mods needed. Bolt up and will be just fine for 320 HP.

Jim,
My heart knows you are right, and I should just keep it simple. But....

I checked out your picture books on your Porsches. To use the terminology of kids in my neighborhood, your machine work is SICK! That's some beautiful fabricating you have done. I previously had seen your vertical IC project and thought it was a great idea that Porsche should have considered. Besides providing large surface area for air cooling and giving good access to the top of the engine, did you see a large advantage in performance?

I think I am struggling with "while I am there -itis" in that the idea of putting on someone's used and banged up, discarded but overpriced, completely Communist-looking stock Porsche heat exchangers is not as appealing as bolting up some new shiny custom-looking FastAsHell headers/HEs (I forget the name of the Taiwanese company -- GoingSuperFast) that 911TT33 suggested. The look they give is very compelling, although it does put me at the top end of my strict budget, and I know there will be other items that are going to easily get me over $4-4500.

My indecision has lingered because I don't want to start the conversion due to an upcoming trip -- so the waiting period has spawned evil thoughts. There's goes that Thinking-thing again.

I'm getting some great feedback from you Pelicaners who have obviously played with the same question, and something will click as the inputs continue.

[RarlyL8]

Hands down, the ONLY way to meet all your goals is with OEM 930 exchangers / J-pipe.
First an foremost get the car on the road with minimal fuss and expense. If later on you want headers you can tackle that. And for godsake don't buy cheap crap! You'll pay twice when it fails or doesn't fit.

[gsmith660]

+1

hands down, the only way to meet all your goals is with oem 930 exchangers / j-pipe.

first an foremost get the car on the road with minimal fuss and expense. If later on you want headers you can tackle that. And for godsake don't buy cheap crap! You'll pay twice when it fails or doesn't fit.

[Tt surgeon]

Agree about the cheap headers.
Ck out rarlyl8, fabspeed, BB, ghl etc.

[quattrorunner]

For crying out loud just put on the j-pipe! It will support the power level you want.
I smell a real problem this guy will have with "while your in there", or some other slipery slope term that I have been trying to avoid. Hope you have a good income cause I predict lots of spent cash for your project. Good luck(you won't need it on the project because thats tried and true) with the finance part of your project. There are some real forks in the road to a successful turbo project and they are not right or wrong choices, just expensive and crazy expensive choices. I chose the "affordable" direction and ran out of cash. I'm not wealthy though and could do it no other way if I wanted the outcome I got.
I love the 3.2 efi route cause it's a more modern way and I think it's a little cheeper as well if done bare bones, but I bought a 77 3.0 turbo engine and just brought it to almost stock using the euro heat exchangers and j-pipe. Made great power with gt30r. So easy and no drama. If you want to later on, change the exhaust to whatever you want, but to get it on the road, just install the j-pipe.

[jcc911]

I run 993 hex with flipped flanges. The cross over pipe made by m&k. Good luck!

[baloo]

Originally Posted by jcc911

I run 993 hex with flipped flanges. The cross over pipe made by m&k. Good luck!

is the crossover advertised on a website? Or is it custom made? where does it position the turbo?

[RarlyL8]

The 993 cross over pipe will bust your budget which is why I did not mention it. We also make y-pipes for SSI conversion; also a budget buster.

[baloo]

so it looks like, unless I can find a used bargain, I'll be going with a set of used stock heat exchangers.

[jcc911]

It puts the turbo in the stock location, but as Brian mentioned, would put you over the top.

[911TT33]

Originally Posted by baloo

so it looks like, unless I can find a used bargain, I'll be going with a set of used stock heat exchangers.

Like I said, GSF headers work well and I have NOT personally experienced or seen any failures on my, or any of my mates cars running them for years (apart from normal discoloration of the T304). Much better performance than heavy OEM heat exchangers with J pipes. Been there done that too and the dfference is night and day on a blown Carrera.

Best of luck with your cool project

[timspu]

i have just fitted the GSF headers. The improved drivability is excellent, boost comes on earlier, a different car to the standard set up. I have kept the 3LDZ turbo and original muffler as i don't want a noisy drive. ( Must be getting old)
The finish is pretty good with no ugly welding. I like them.

I did have issues though, the first set received did not fit very well, the mechanic tried lots of pry bars but could not pull them in. So i requested a replacement set, which took a couple of weeks to organise, ( GSF is in Taiwan) these were still a very tight fit but they did get installed. Albert at GSF is very helpful and always responds.
You will have to replace the heat ex inlet pipes with longer ones.
points to note when the system is intalled the waster gate sits a little higher and on my install the standard waste gate exh pipe would not fit as it contacted with the new turbo oil sump tank. I have a stubby pipe now installed but it is a bit short and blasts the sump tank. Will have to get a longer one made with a better turn down as i am also smelling fumes when on boost.
For the price they are good. i would have prefered a better fit on my engine.
The install is a bit hit and miss, it is not perfect and you have to adjust and make it all fit the way you want it. The final outcome is satisfying though.
Albert later advised he managed to fit the units i returned with no issue. Still do not understand why they were so difficult to install on my engine and easy on his.

if a garage is going to do the install expect a large bill for manhours. My mechanic took 12 hours but this did include removing a 23 year old exhaust system with a wate gate welded to the flange.
The only negative i have is that they are not a push fit to the head.

As others will mention Brian at rarly8 has quality products.

[cliyde]

Baloo,
Save your $$$ and go with stock headers/exchangers and 930 J-pipe. You won't dissapointed with the performance and you will easily retain heat. My 3.2T is putting out around 335WHP at 7.5lbs boost on stock HE's. Take the money you saved and invest in a 044 fuel pump, torsion bars, and monitor for boost and AFR to compliment it.

Good luck!