Just my thoughts on having a 5 speed
 

I posted another thread about my new to me 88 slantnose. The PO had done some work to the car some things done well others need to be addressed but one thing that I now cannot live without is the G50 conversion. I had an 87 with the factory 4 speed and loved it but this 5 speed is truly amazing. It seems like boost is there in every gear and comes on instantly. I was driving on the highway in 3rd and punched it the feeling of that turbo kicking you in the pants is really something great. If the 87 was in 3rd or 4th boost was nowhere to be found. I have only taken the car locally so far but can't wait to get this on a real shakedown run. Well just wanted to tell someone about my new toy and the wife really is not that interested so thanks for letting me vent.

Great, love to meet up, you're in bayside right?

Supercool!

Tt I am in Bayside would love to meet up one day and see what a real 505 looks like in person

I'm sure it looks just like yours, I'm in glen head,LI.

Back to the question at hand. I believe you will have to modify the under carriage back by the torsion bars. I looked into this a while back, but was too extensive, decided on EFI instead. Still in the works...

Having had a 5speed 89 930 and now a 4 speed 79, you are right.
If I could have that 5 speed in this 79, perfect !
Good for you , enjoy it.

That`s great Mike glad to hear that you have a 5 speed. I should have let you drive mine, once you do there is no looking back! Well enjoy and keep her pointing straight. Can`t wait to see the new one at the next meet.....

I am also lucky enough to have a G50 930 and I agree with you on all points. The 4 speed almost always feels "in between" gears on the street in my opinion - you are either bogging it down or screaming. The addition of the 5sp makes the car so much more driveable, and the power is much more useable on the street IMO.

Not to mention the clutch makes the car feel 10 years newer!

will a 4 gear 1977 leight weight clutch and flywheel fit a shortened g50?

I'm also looking at the option on having a shortened G50 installed.
If anyone have one for sale, please pm me

What power/torque does a standard G50/01 take?

Is side plate and steel syncro the common upgrade?

ok i have an 88 i know that 89' s had the 5 speed. what was the difference? i have two sets of holes under the car where the transmission crossmember mounts. i know earlier cars require a lot of work to make it fit but what about an 88?

They have one fs at Andial, they are closing dorm for good next week.

Got the G50/50 in mine. I love it torque everywhere it is a great combo without sacrificing top end in the case of the short gear argument.

From what a couple of members have said, they can take whatever you can throw at it as long as you have the billet diff cover.

Mines had 500hp for years no problem, and I've full throttled-shifted it many times (not letting off throttle between shifts under boost).

I am sorry I cannot answer the questions as to the mods required to install a 5 speed into a 4 speed car. As I stated it was installed by PO. I am sure there are members here can chime in as to what mods are required

I have also been interested in finding out what it would take to put a G50 into my '86
Turbo. That's the one thing I don't like about the car.

Anyone?

John Walker may have one under his bench. Said he put it on the classifieds a year or so ago and had no interest.

Found that out AFTER I bought a G50 and finished having it machined/rebuilt.

There's a member (Anastasios, in Greece, IIRC) that has/had a shortened G50 bell and mainshaft for sale in the classifieds here; so if you had a G50 already, you could convert as part of a rebuild without any machining/re-hardening needed. I talked to him about it (nice guy), but was unable to source the partial G50 I was after which would have made the deal make sense for me.

If I did it over again, I'd probably just tell PMS exactly what I wanted and have them build a G50 to spec. You won't save much doing it yourself. Least, I didn't seem to. Maybe I did. I can't quite seem to ever get through adding up the invoices...

Be sure you're sitting down when you read/figure the price, and remember that labor to fit can be a significant portion on top, unless you're doing yourself.

There's a lot of time-consuming fiddling necessary - like with the pedal box/hydraulics. On a 930, you may not have to mess with the torsion bar for clearance. But be prepared, because you might need to (there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason, at least on 911 conversions)...

Many places will/can do the conversion machining/re-hardening, but AFAIK, only PMS also source all the other little bits - slotted/built up cross-member, coupler, hose extensions, clutch package, 87-89 pedal box, shifter etc. - that can be kind of a pain to figure out/modify or source yourself. They can supply a complete package in a box, and are good folks to deal with.

Did I say to make sure that you're sitting down when you read the price? :)

Juan is running a 3.2 with a G50 and a huge turbo and drags it with a G50/01, IIRC; if you're lucky, he'll chime in. He seems to mostly break flanges, axles and hubs. He probably makes lots more than many tuned 930's...

I was told that steel synchros are mainly because the brass ones get too hot/expand too much and stop working well in racing applications, rather than for strength (unless you're really ramming the gears in). Also this is may be the main reason for additional cooling. Steel synchos can also make the shift kind of notchy.

I was also told that billet shifter forks are only necessary for longevity if you're slamming gear changes - like in an endurance race - but to make sure the factory cast one (1st-2nd?) isn't cracked; because they sometimes do that.

I didn't do either of the above upgrades, because my application is primarily street - and because I priced them out. Heh... Which was the same reason I didn't seriously consider a 10.31:1 CWP; which is probably exactly what it needs - it'd make 1st actually usable, and make 5th less buzzy on the freeway and extend top speed. And it'd be stronger.

I was fed up with anti-social clutches - so I used an organic friction plate. Which is a joy in traffic after a puck clutch.

As far as the side-cover goes, I'm told that everything wants to come out of the side cover under load, and any deflection whatsoever of the cover has Really, Really Bad implications for the tolerances of everything under there.. And that things will go bad (read "$$$$$") really fast if that's not controlled. So that's the reason to beef up the side cover; price a CWP sometime, it's about the same as a used G50 that needs a refresh...

I believe a 40/60 LSD is a must - and especially as you'll already be messing with shims when you change the side-cover (just swapping it over is a bad idea); open diffs in the 915s get very unhappy indeed with high-power applications, so this is a longevity factor (at least for them) - and it really improves the car anyway.

I also vote "yes" for the J West G50 short-shift and coupler pillow; amazingly precise (especially in conjunction with WEVO semi-solid mounts) and looks factory. Your main problem afterwards will be re-programming how the driver shifts...

Just "while we were in there", I had the cases welded and machined for squirter/cooler fittings. Rather have them and not need them, than have to drop it all out... So if it's ever needed, can just remove the plugs, bolt on a pump/cooler kit and be done.

Apparently (and I didn't read this until AFTER I'd bought a G50/01), the G50/03 uses the same (carrier? I forget) bearings internally as the turbo G50s - so it's stronger. You would need to either swap over the earlier tail cap or machine off the mounting ear and convert the tail cap to the earlier cross-member studs, of course.

Do your own research/check your facts; that last bit about the bearings is just something I read on Pelican - I just didn't have any stomach for changing direction at that point.

I understand the G50/50 is like rocking horse poop and priced accordingly - not only are they in very limited supply to start with, they're also heavily in demand for mid-engine V8 kit cars. Interestingly, upside down is how the factory ran them for racing, and apparently suits them better than than the stock configuration as the gears run in an oil bath. Or something :)

Hope this helps.

My thoughts are I'm sure the 5 speed is nicer to drive, it seems they always are but I can't afford to change it so the 4 speed is good enough for me.

A cure for keeping happy with a 4 speed that is fine for most would be to spend the money on lots more HP and torque. Example, I have a 700hp turbo with a 8:41diff for 1/4 mile. i am not the fastest shifter, hence i waste more time shifting than if it had a 4spd. Now if it had a 9:36 it would be better for me with the 5 spd as then i would just use the first 4 gears. I also have 4 spd cars w around 400 hp w 8:41diff which is also similar to the 5 spds 1st 4 gears. i have never felt I needed to go to the limit, which is around 150MPH and the gear selection under normal use is fine and keeps them running clean. I also have another 600+hp with a 5 spd w a 936 diff. I seldom ever use 5th gear otherwise it runs terrible after using the 5th gear. For ultimate performance on the road race track,yea a 5spd, but for the cost I,d buy HP and torque if i were to build one. A lot depends on how the engine is built. If it only delivers power in a very narrow RPM range ( 5.5K RPM to 7.5K RPM) and is listless in lower RPMs then the 5 spd is the way to go. just my 2 cents. With few exceptions I like a well tuned 4 spd just fine and put the $$$$ elsewhere.