Turbo Conversion Advice 3.2

H2odiesel · 12-13-2013, 05:20 AM

Gentlemen, I am going to be adding a low boost turbo setup to my 85 3.2L Targa. I am still considering options on how to best handle the fuel and ignition requirements. I thought I was going to go with a piggy back unit and retain the DME, but that looks untenable due to the unique crank sensor signal produced by this generation 911s. The two options I am looking at now are converting to a standalone ECM or using a Rising rate fuel pressure regulator and retard on boot type ignition unit.

At the completion of this project I'd like to have a car with turbo boost, good reliability, near stock drive ability at low power , top end power in the 350 to 375 hp range.

In regard to a new ECM, I am quite good with mechanical and electrical systems, and I am reasonably computer literate. I am not however looking for a full time hobby playing with my ECM nor do I want to drive around most of the time with a laptop in the passenger seat.

In regard to the RRFPR, and the retard on boost method. Can one configure this type of system to reliably and safely(engine wise) do what is necessary to have good drive ability and good performance. although they might work they seem like dull tools to do a rather precise job.

All opinions are welcome, even if you want to say "leave it stock" as long as you support the statement with logic.

quattrorunner · quattrorunner's Garage

Have you looked into the protomotive method?
Look up or search turbo 3.2 turbo and you should find info about the chip and rrfpr solution for the 3.2 carrera. It's well documented and done often.
Just know that anything over 325-350 torque will harm the 915 gearbox.
Here's a start
Turbocharged My 3.2L Carrera!

juan ruiz · juan ruiz's Garage

I second the Protomotive route.

jpnovak · 12-13-2013, 07:21 AM

Go to DIY Autotune.

Get a DIY-PNP with the Bosch 55 pin connector.

DIYPNP Bosch 55pin Unassembled Kit DIYAutoTune.com

Then remove your AFM. Use the wires to connect an external MAP sensor (GM style) and send this signal to the ECU.

Install a new crank trigger pulley with 36-1 or 60-2 wheel. Install turbo system without AFM to give you real throttle response.

Tune the car. Enjoy boost responsibly.

When you want more power. Rebuild engine with lower compression pistons and increase boost. Just retune the engine.

H2odiesel · 12-13-2013, 08:12 AM

Thanks Guys! I appreciate the input. Does Promotive still sell chips for this approach? I had read somewhere the had stopped doing this. Also My DME is the 35 pin variety. In regard to the toothed wheel that is doable. Can you get the crank pulley off with a partial engine drop? AEM has a distributor module that produces a crank and a cam signal.

Ken911 · 12-13-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2odiesel

Thanks Guys! I appreciate the input. Does Promotive still sell chips for this approach? I had read somewhere the had stopped doing this. Also My DME is the 35 pin variety. In regard to the toothed wheel that is doable. Can you get the crank pulley off with a partial engine drop? AEM has a distributor module that produces a crank and a cam signal.

Yes you can pull the crank pulley off by lowering the rear of the engine. Whether or not to put a cam sensor in depends on the ignition system you choose and the injector size.

Tippy · 12-13-2013, 10:02 AM

I have the Protomotive chip, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, etc for sale.

PM if you're serious. Good to 1.2 bar boost.

All you add is the turbo kit.

Rodsrsr · Rodsrsr's Garage

I used the stock chip with MSD 6BTM with boost retard. Ford MAF with split second controller and RRFPR. Works very well and is fully adjustable if you ever need more boost.

cliyde · cliyde's Garage

Tippy,
Curious what injectors you have... Are they bosch, 0280150XXX?

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tippy

I have the Protomotive chip, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, etc for sale.

PM if you're serious. Good to 1.2 bar boost.

All you add is the turbo kit.

Tippy · 12-13-2013, 06:35 PM

Siemens Deka 575cc (55lb) low-Z model 3102.

H2odiesel · 12-15-2013, 04:20 AM

After more research I am leaning heavily toward Megasquirt or maybe microsquirt and some high impedance injectors and EDIS ignition. Before I take the plunge I'm going to do some research on the stock flywheel sensors. I'd like to avoid adding a crank pulley trigger wheel.

Tippy · 12-15-2013, 04:41 AM

I don't think you have an option there. AFAIK, Motronic is the only EFI that can read two different triggers. All others count and look for the missing tooth.

I'll admit I'm not 100% but pretty sure.

H2odiesel · 12-15-2013, 05:34 AM

There is an option in tuner studio for a non missing tooth wheel and a wheel with one tooth. The issue seems to be getting a clean signal from the pickups. Also the trial version of TS I am playing with has the wheel select portion greyed out so I can't tell what the max number of teeth that is allowed. I've posted the question there but so far no response after two days.

Tippy · 12-15-2013, 06:48 AM

Hmmm, that's interesting. It's possible MSIII can decode the factory flywheel but from memory (which isn't so good

), there are too many teeth on the flywheel.

If you crack the code, let us know. That would be huge.

jpnovak · 12-15-2013, 09:38 AM

The problem is that the flywheel as 129 teeth. It is not divisible easily into 360 degrees rotation of the crank so you end up with a partial angle resolution.

I think VEMS can work with the stock flywheel.

I am not sure if the MSIII can decode the Motronic flywheel. It would be great if they did.

If you had a G50 car then I would suggest to install the 964 flywheel that has the 60-2 pattern.

Another option would be to send your flywheel to TurboKraft. They can machine it to change the tooth pattern and then rebalance. This is the easiest if you want to use the stock Crank sensor signal.

I still think that bolting a new crank pulley is the easiest based on installation. EFI can be simple or complicated. Choose which method you want to go.

Tippy · 12-15-2013, 10:10 AM

GSF sold my pulley, VR bracket, and dizzy plug (all nicely machined and anodized) for only $150.

Tippy · 10:16 AM

Or if not using ignition side of MS, use an older dizzy that has a variable reluctor and remove one of the legs so you have a 5-1 arrangement (5 teeth, 1 missing).

H2odiesel · 12-15-2013, 10:20 AM

There is another Dizzy type solution AEM makes a drop in puck the produces a cam and a crank signal AEM-30-3250. A wheel and pickup seem more robust but it should work.

Tippy · 12-15-2013, 10:24 AM

Cheapest is GSF. Many have used with success. Add $20 for the AC pulley.

Just support engine, remove cross bar and engine support console, then replace crank pulley.

Remember Bentley repair manual's stated crank pulley torque is waaaaay off. It's like double what they state.

H2odiesel · 12-15-2013, 04:43 PM

This is from from the 944 board back in 2008 the NA 944 has a 132 tooth wheel and the turbo 130. They had an older Version of microsquirt running on both with the stock VR sensors

Not sure if this is Rob I'm replying to again, but I'm pretty sure the MS1 can't handle the amount of teeth/s required to get any kind of decent RPM. The microsquirt has been bench tested up to about 7K with a 130 toothed wheel.