Mega squirt 2 efi 930 stock engine

[chevy62]

Hello,

Long story short ,in middle of converting from CIS to EFI and planning of using Mega Squirt 2 for fuel and ignition via distributor.

The engine setup is stock and not chasing HP but a reliable engine.

If anyone is using similar setup and has a starting map I would apreciate the help.

Best regards

[Tippy]

I have maps. What size injectors?

[chevy62]

Hi,
Thanks for your swift reply.

The plan is to use 38 lb injectors which have a long nozzle that fits conversion from cis to efi using the original manifold and injector block modified to accept this injector.
I also want to run the Ms2 from the dizzy signal and manage fuel and ingnition.Do you have the same setup? If using a crank sensor would the ignition map be different?
I haven't got all the parts on the engine ....still making decision on sensors.
If you have some maps and maybe some basic layout of sensors used in your conversion it would be of great help .
Best regards,

[Tippy]

I don't recommend using the dizzy for ECU triggering. It's not accurate enough due to crank gear to dizzy gear backlash. I'm using Ford EDIS using a GSF 36-1 trigger wheel that I highly recommend for precise triggering.

Maps should be no different for ignition setups.

So with 38lb injectors, you'd have to multiply "req_fuel" of my setup by 1.4 or the entire map by the same using the multiplier function in the fuel map. It's the "*" symbol.

I don't have a 930 converted, rather a 3.2 (3.4) Carrera I ripped all the Motronic out of.

Same platform though.

Send a PM with your email so I can send you my settings.

[Speedy Squirrel]

Whaaat, 930's terrorizing the streets of Bucharest? Excellent!

Here is what I used:
GM sensors for MAP and TPS. Had to make an adaptor for the TPS sensor to the stock throttle.
Omega Engineering (big internet scientific instrument dealer) for MAT and ECT. I used ON-909-44005 for ECT, and just epoxied it to a cylinder fin. I used TJ36-44005-1/8-4 for the MAT sensor, and machined an adaptor to fit it to the cold start fuel injector hole.
GM 8-pin ignition module - fully covered in Megasquirt documentation
Weatherpac connectors to make the wiring harness. They are commonly available.

I had injectors made for me, but you can get something similar with Siemens DEKA V extended tip.

[Tippy]

Nice! I have Dekas too but traditional tip. Good to know they make extended.

[chevy62]

Hi ,

It's nice to see I kinda took the same path as others when doing the conversion but used seadoo rxp supercharged injectors


These injectors have been around since 2004 but for seadoo ....i fix these PWC so ....
I also milled the original blocks to fit injectors.....no budget for new ones and the new ones needed mods too at the time of starting conversion.
Will the innacuracy of using the dizzy for trigger cause big issues ....not chasing big power but as close as original look as possible

Thanks for the support .

[xbmwguy]

Tippy is spot on. Don't use the dizzy as you will have much more timing control at the end of the day

[Speedy Squirrel]

I think you missed the point. We were discussing distributor with electronic timing control vs distributor less. The former has a good range of authority. Many cars from the '90's used it. It is fine, just not the most accurate. FYI, you minimize the backlash by locking the rotor and inductor coil plate. Then you can adjust the shim packs at the top and bottom of the distributor shaft to minimize the backlash. Not as good as flywheel sensors, but good enough.

[chevy62]

It worked good enough for original setup ....except cis which in my case was at the time of the decision to go efi locked due to no use for 10 years .
The cost of putting cis back in running was bigger than what I have invested in EFI since much of the parts are made locally and sourced from PWC such as tps and other sensors.Not to mention that I never seen a car with CIS ever working in proper order around my country.
The car is a Frankenstein masterpiece so It will cope ok with MS and dizzy.....74 body,78 turbo engine ,turbo body kit etc
Thanks for your input
While on the subject any ideas on intercoolers ...
Waste gate and blow off

[chevy62]

@speedy squirel
any chance that you would like to share your mapping ...I see you use a MS which could be 2 or 3 cause as far as I remember MS does not go with GM ign module

The original plan was to use MS1 for fuel as a standalone and a GM 4 pin HEI module for spark.

[Speedy Squirrel]

The GM 4 pin does not allow ECU control of the timing. It only shapes the waveform to maximize dwell time. MSII definitely supports the GM 7 pin and GM 8 pin. I recommend the 8 pin because it is intended to be mounted separate from the distributor, and has its own ground wire.

You will want to control ignition timing. The distributor will be easy for you to lock down. It is a reversible modification. I can tell you how I did it, if you need help. The drivability and startability are really good with timing control. Use the GM 8 pin.

Here is my ign_table for MSII. It is for 98RON fuel and 900 rpm idle. There is no distributor offset (distributor locked to Z1 for cyl1).

[chevy62]

Thanks for the ign map .
The extraefi guy from UK where I am getting the MS2 left me with the impression that I can fire a coil directly from MS without any other ign control ....is that true?
Can i still use your ign map if I choose not to use the GM module?
Advice on dizzy lock would be apreciated .

Best regards ,

[TurboKraft]

Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel

I think you missed the point. We were discussing distributor with electronic timing control vs distributor less. The former has a good range of authority. Many cars from the '90's used it. It is fine, just not the most accurate. FYI, you minimize the backlash by locking the rotor and inductor coil plate. Then you can adjust the shim packs at the top and bottom of the distributor shaft to minimize the backlash. Not as good as flywheel sensors, but good enough.

This is spot-on. Using the distributor is more than "good enough" -- it's more than ample for most street cars. This car had a locked-down distributor, and no lack of performance or drivability:
Taking the EFI Plunge

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel

The GM 4 pin does not allow ECU control of the timing. It only shapes the waveform to maximize dwell time. MSII definitely supports the GM 7 pin and GM 8 pin. I recommend the 8 pin because it is intended to be mounted separate from the distributor, and has its own ground wire.

You will want to control ignition timing. The distributor will be easy for you to lock down. It is a reversible modification. I can tell you how I did it, if you need help. The drivability and startability are really good with timing control. Use the GM 8 pin.

Here is my ign_table for MSII. It is for 98RON fuel and 900 rpm idle. There is no distributor offset (distributor locked to Z1 for cyl1).

28 degrees of timing at 1 bar?

[xbmwguy]

I don't see a problem with 28 deg on the top,however I tend to pull timing back at the beginning of the power curve then add it back up top. I was getting consistent middle 500 rwhp with that timing scenario and proper fueling on ms2 and a pancake manifold. I even ventured into the 600 hp levels on e-85 at 1.5 bar. When motor was torn down for the new build a few weeks ago all was perfect,rings ,pistons etc

[Tippy]

I ran 28 or 29 myself at 1-bar. Plenty of Pelicanites scared me into 24.

[Speedy Squirrel]

It is true that Megasquirt 2 can control a coil directly, but when doing so, it cannot control ignition timing. It is just a dwell control to charge the coil, so no ignition map.

I know I am encouraging you to do the ignition control, and maybe you don't want to. That's OK, in that case you can just use the Megasquirt2 for fueling only, and leave the ignition and timing control as is. You will be missing out on performance though.

The GM ignition modules are attractive for Porsches because both Bosch and GM used variable reluctance distributors. The signal from the Bosch distributor works perfectly with the GM module, and the tach signal is compatible, so it is generally an easy thing to hook up.

Originally Posted by chevy62

Thanks for the ign map .
The extraefi guy from UK where I am getting the MS2 left me with the impression that I can fire a coil directly from MS without any other ign control ....is that true?
Can i still use your ign map if I choose not to use the GM module?
Advice on dizzy lock would be apreciated .

Best regards ,