Yet another SC Turbo conversion! :)
 

I guess i just officially joined the 911 Turbo club! I have been working the last few weeks to do a turbo swap on my SC 3.0(3.1 actually) Im the type of person, if i decide i want to do something, i have to do it as quickly as possible. What i first started to do was replace some broken axle boots, valve adjustment, and new spark plugs , morphed into a complete turbo swap. I started accumulating parts for the swap about 3 months ago, searching, and looking for parts on the forums, Ebay, cragislist, etc. Just got it together on friday, and was able to do a rough tune on it to get it running fairly good.
79 911SC widebody conversion
Here is my Mods
factory 3.1 block(97mm pistons, and 97mm turbo cylinders) 9.5:1 compression
Carrera heads.
SC cams
Carrera intake
carrera oil cooler
Factory J pipe sourced from Ebay
KKK K27 7200 High flow
Tial F41 wastegate(.60 Bar spring)
straight through exhaust with a high flow cat
Siemens/DEKA 60 lb hr fuel injectors
Aeromotive rising rate fuel pressure regulator
Greddy type FV BOV
Microsquirt V3 ECU
Ford EDIS ignition
knocksense knock system
Flex fuel sensor from Ford Ranger
Big Ass full bay intercooler(Thanks Tippy)
I have owned several single turbo RX-7s in my earlier years, and an 02 911 Turbo, so this isnt my first Turbo car. I have missed the sound of the turbo spooling up, and the sound of the BOV, and wastegate opening up, and the feel of the turbo building boost as you blast off like a rocket! Such a great feeling!

I am going to be running E85 most of the time, and started the transition today, just hoping that Microsquirt automatically compensates for the change in the Gasoline/ethanol mixture like it is supposed to.

I copied someones timing table to get me started. Does anyone have a timing table from a 9.5:1 compression car that i could look over to make sure i am in the right ballpark?
Also, was planning to keep it at at .60 Bar, am i running safe here with 9.5:1 compression?
Here are some pics of the car, and some engine porn!
not sure why the intercooler looks sideways, its pretty straight
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...srlapwetu.jpeg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...sklq87urx.jpeg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...swycvehns.jpeg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps2mtqvbm0.jpg

Wow, had no idea you had such a looker!

If I'm getting away with 1.4 bar with 7.5 CR, 0.6 with 9.5 CR should be safe. That IC will keep the turbo temps at or just above ambient easily.

As far as timing, I believe there's quite a few 3.0 turbo guys that should be able to give you something.

3.2 heads, cams, and intake breathe pretty good. Bet it's a rocket!

Cool Build :eek:

" I am going to be running E85 most of the time" No Bueno, seen way to many failures on E85........

Thanks Tippy for the kind words. Its kind of a 10 footer right now. Paint and body work is next!

Juan, can you elaborate on the e85 comment? I was thinking that E85 was a bit safer for a high compression motor? Not really planning on upping the boost with E85.

cool build, came out good - looks fun

enjoy

I know of some people that run E85, but I know of more people with E85 failures, from the top of my head, I can recall a Honda 550hp/ supra 1100hp/911 1000hp all of them were equipt with some type of device to retard the timing and or keep the engine safe, all of them failed, all of them reported that the E85 was not consistent, especially on the supra motor which the owner felt "good" because he was always using the same gas station.

On a positive note, I think Frank around here runs E85 and so far so good so maybe he can chime in.

Thanks for the clarification Juan. I am also running an ethanol content sensor, so i am still using the standard gasoline VE table, im pretty sure the Microsquirt uses the ethanol percentages and adds and takes away the addidional fuel required, just like a ford or chevy does from the factory. Atleast i think thats how it works based on the info i have recieved. I could see people with Just an E85 tune without the sensor would have problems, since E85 is usually E70 or 80 in the winter.

Scavenge pump
 

hi nice car - i have a question for you i in a middle of conversion a SC a well and i am using the same idea for the free fall for the oil from the turbo to the bottom of the engine and 2 turbo died from lack of oil . one of the turbo technician told me that the suction from the cartridge is too high and i need to use a Scavenge pump instead
is it true?do you have this issue with your car ?does it smoke?
THX

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1451915760.jpg

If they're not using a Flex Fuel sensor, yes, running sa, E70, or lower mixture with an E85 tune would have far less octane and too advanced thus boom.

I've heard these mixtures aren't perfectly consistent too.

You have 2 maps per fuel and ignition, 1 for E10/straight gasoline, and 1 for E85.

The sensor detects the % of ethanol and interpolates between the 2 maps.

That's a nice build :)

Looks great! We need some videos of it running. I think EDIS is my next move in the near future...

Who makes that intercooler?

On e85, that thing is going to be barnstormer.

For fail mode or when using gasoline only, if you plan to run knock control, your default fallback should be a max of .5 BAR, which will play nice with the 7200. Without knock control, your fail mode on premium gas should be full dump (no boost), as the motor won't tolerate any amount of boost within the efficiency range of the 7200.

my car does not smoke at all, and it seems to play well with the gravity drain set up i have. Where is your oil supply coming from? sounds like it isnt getting the proper amount of oil pressure. What turbo are you running? is there a restrictor in the line?
I ran my oil supply from the rear oil pressure switch, and used the 930 factory hard oil supply line. I seem to be getting a good amount of oil to keep the turbo happy. I would think a scavenge pump would move the oil out of the turbo faster, so i don't think that will take care of your problem.

Just did a tuning session today with a good buddy that has tuned a few 800hp Supras. I was able to get some nice runs in on the interstate winding out second, and third. It pulls phenominal, and the car feels like a deathtrap!
EDIS was a fairly easy affair for me. I used the goingsuperfast crank pulley, and the toothed wheel. I sourced all of the EDIS stuff from my local Pull-a-part for about $25. Came off of a Ford Explorer. I also found some plug wires off of a 96 Ford Crown Victoria that worked out quite well. I had no problems getting it dialed in. I guess this is the easiest way to go distributorless. I may try coil on plug one day, but only because i think it looks sweet. Still not sure how to do COP with wasted spark either.
Not sure who built the intercooler... I bought it secondhand off of Tippy. Seems to be pretty well made. Had to make a few modifications to it to make it fit how i wanted it to. It seems to do its job. I guess we will see this summer as to how efficient it will be.

I will see if i can't get some video of pulling second and third gear in the next few days!

Not sure the make either, came on the car when bought from PO who bought it from Miami.

Scott, it'll keep the outlet temps at bay easily in summer. The worst it's "allowed" was 15° over ambient in a 105° day.

No worries there!

To your point, he is running 3.2 heads, cams, and intake, which the 7200 will be putting in extra work to maintain .6 bar over a standard 930 engine.

Guess the compressor map will tell if it's going to he OK or running hot. I suspect no problem since it's nearly half the boost as most.

Just hoping someone could critique my ignition table. I wanted to be a little conservative under boost. Am i too conservative?
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...spmzlwoeu.jpeg

I'd say you are very conservative.

But, one thing that jumps out to me is your low RPM high load cells. 35° is way too high.

In the 450 RPM/100kPa cell, I'd put 0°.

This is the cell where the engine is starting in. It'll help the starter to spin the motor and reduce kickback.

Once it fires off, the timing jumps up due to vacuum to help keep it running.

What Sal pointed out, too high of timing at low RPM makes for a situation where the piston is literally being pushed backwards, making for difficult running.

Tippy, Here is the turbo i bought. It apparently has a 2.42" inducer compressor wheel installed, from what i can tell, its about the same as a 7200 Hi Flow. I am definitely not a turbo expert, but i know it was tons better than the factory 2LDZ i was about to slap on there. It seems to pull quite well to the redline i have set at 6250. Before turboing, i turned this motor to 7k rpms without any problems. I guess i have a small advantage to having a short stroke motor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/k27-kkk-3k-porsche-turbo-turbocharger-upgrade-450-500hp-/161914506141?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STR K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=9j80lmeOJWBEX2Q1hUwBcz dSdl4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

These guys here know a lot about the 3K turbos and can help you out immensely.

im not sure why he did the 35 degrees at that RPM, i guess i could take that back to 20 or so. What do you think would be a safe advance under boost?

I'd think 5 across the boost areas would be fine and still conservative. You do have small bores, so it has a big impact.

Ideally, someone with a turbo'd 3.0 using J&S Safeguard could provide solid values.

How did you do an entire turbo conversion in a few weeks? That is amazing to me.

The new parts, i ordered all at once, and installed things as they trickled in. The microsquirt and Ford EDIS took the most actual time. Just the ECU and ignition took a few days to get wired up. I could have got it done faster if the Christmas rush wouldn't have slowed my packages down. I had already installed the carrera intake a year or so ago, but it had to come back off to attach the oil supply line, and to make my custom fuel lines, etc. The actual exhaust part of the project was done in just a few hours. I did have a 3ldz turbo installed, then decided to go the K27 route, so i had to spend a little extra time swapping that out. Without the exhaust on, it probably took about 45 minutes to swap the actual turbo out. I noticed that most people remove the rear valance, and bumper to do the install, but i didn't have to do that.
I would estimate around 16 hours actual working time to complete it.

Man, I wished anyone on the fence to convert to EFI would read this.

I can't say this enough, it's easy to wire one up. The planning takes the longest.

Same here, from the time I pulled the N/A headers off and fired it up for the first time was about two weeks. I would have finished sooner had I had ALL the parts at once. It was just a waiting game for the small stuff to trickle in.

Nice build, just keep a eye on your injector duty cycle with e85 and 60lb injectors. I'm running the flex fuel sensor with ms3x and it works very well.

Based on the fuel calculators I have used, I should be good for up to 450hp at 85% duty cycle on e85. I would not think I am making anywhere near that at the moment. It feels strong, but I have not dynoed it yet, so I really have no clue. When I first dreamed up this project, I was only figuring on making around 350-375 at the crank. It would suck to have to upgrade fuel injectors already!

dynoing the car tomorrow, will report the results!

Rootin' fer ya! Break a dyno, er leg!

Dyno #s are in 402hp 361 tq
I will post the chart when I get home. Pretty happy with the results...

Running E85?
Nice numbers!!

Yessir

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...szperdh21.jpeg
Air/fuel ratio was in the mid 11s. Their gauge was not working correctly, so they did not put the air/fuel info on the sheet. Kind of wish they put RPM instead of Speed... Maybe i can get another printout next time i am in the area.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps0lj0q2cn.jpg
Here is another dyno pull that looks a little cleaner, not sure why the other one is so jumpy.

Damn! nice build! That has to feel scary on the street. Is that still on a 915 gearbox? Did you shift into 5th at the end or something???

Nice result. I am sure its a blast to drive.

Did you datalog your run from the laptop?

btw, you asked a question previously about timing. Yes, I also think this is conservative. though you are running high static compression so it probably works well. That is not a problem.

However, Please do yourself a favor and scale your timing (and presumably fuel) tables where you will use them. Your timing curve shows peak pressure at 250kPa indicting 1.5bar boost pressure. I think you are only running up to 0.8bar boost. If so, you are not getting anywhere close to the top three rows of timing. This is just wasted resolution for you. Your max row should be somewhere around 180kPa maybe slightly higher depending on actual readout numbers from your MAP sensor. Then rescale the load values to fill in the gaps.

You also need to scale your rpm bins. Your last column jumps from 5400 to 7500 rpm. I doubt you are spinning so fast. Notice that dip in your curve from 105 to 120 mph? That is your car wanting more timing. You can see the output pick up as you transition from 14 to 17 deg timing coming closer to the last cell. You can back calculate your rpm from the speed assuming you know which gear you were in. I would guess 4th based on the speed. This will help you determine where you need to adjust timing.

carry on.

Thanks for the feedback, I did not think to datalog any of my runs(would have been helpful) I have modified my timing table since then, I will see if i can post an updated table. but yeah, i see the jump from 5400 to 7500, that cant be good. I still have up to 250Kpa, so i guess i should probably dial that back a bit. I have a weird hesitation around 3k RPMs, and that happens to be an area where the timing jumps pretty drastically. This was just a tune that i conjured up from the autotune function, and the Spark table was modified from someone else's 3.0 build. I am thinking one day i will spend the $ to have someone custom tune the car.

Hot damn! Those are some big numbers! E85 is where it's at for sure.

Congrats on the #'s!

Still the stock 915. We ran it all the way up to redline, that was most likely the fuel cut.
The car feels crazy fast in 3rd and 4th gear on the interstate. I really didn't know what to expect with this bastardized motor, but it seems to be pretty happy with the turbo. If i were not running E85, i would be really scared to pop this engine with the 9.5:1 compression ratio.