Modifying 930 dizzy to go full sequential with MS3Pro.

Oheggem · 01-29-2016, 06:45 AM

Been searching a long time for instructions to transform the 930 distributor to get cam signal for full sequential. Was considering sending it to Richard Clewett but might as well buy the $600 scavenge pump.

Anyone have any good links for instructions to DIY and what i need?

Thanks in advance

nocarrier · 01-29-2016, 07:46 AM

Do you have the factory scavenge pump with the air injection pulley?

Speedy Squirrel · Speedy Squirrel's Garage

Step 1 for me was to take it out of the engine, and take it apart. Then I locked down the mechanical advance mechanics by drilling and taping two holes, removing the rotor drive pins, and fastening the rotor drive to the distributor shaft with two screws. After that I removed the VR coil, and the vacuum/pressure advance ring. I fabricated a one tooth target out of sheet steel, and a holder for the Hall effect sensor,from a small block of aluminum. This I attached to the distributor housing with self tapping screws. I still had to use the cap, with no wires, for a cover.

I was never happy with it, and eventually replaced it with a DME 60-2 flywheel, and sensors mounted in the engine part of the bell housing area.

I heard that Accel made their Daul-Sync distributor for Porsches. I have seen it on line, but have never seen on an engine.

Oheggem · 01-29-2016, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocarrier

Do you have the factory scavenge pump with the air injection pulley?

I think i do yes.

Quote:

Step 1 for me was to take it out of the engine, and take it apart. Then I locked down the mechanical advance mechanics by drilling and taping two holes, removing the rotor drive pins, and fastening the rotor drive to the distributor shaft with two screws. After that I removed the VR coil, and the vacuum/pressure advance ring. I fabricated a one tooth target out of sheet steel, and a holder for the Hall effect sensor,from a small block of aluminum. This I attached to the distributor housing with self tapping screws. I still had to use the cap, with no wires, for a cover.

Ooof.. thats a lot of work and i`ll just break it for sure. Come to think of it i already did trying to lock open the weights when installing the MSD. Ended up going for XDi system because of it. Now that was easy

Might be worth asking Clewett if he has a kit to modify it so that i don`t have to send it across the world

nocarrier · 01-29-2016, 11:29 AM

I'm running ms3pro.

I took the air injection pulley and installed a ferrous bolt into it.

I them modified the housing to accept a Hamlin 55505 hall effect sensor.

The benefit of the Hamlin sensor is that it has a built in pull up resistor. This way you don't have to build it in your harness.

There is also a Hamlin 55075 that has a threaded body that might be easier for you to install.

Oheggem · 12:58 PM

I`m such a dumbass.

I don`t have the pump there because i`ve always wondered about that when i saw different part catalogs etc. But the pulley however is probably there right? Seems a lot easier than the dizzy way. Do i need a special bolt for the hall sensor to pick up signal?

nocarrier · 01-29-2016, 01:51 PM

Nope just a regular bolt is all I'm using. I did align it so the flats of the bolt were perpendicular to the sensor.

Oheggem · 01-29-2016, 11:53 PM

Does it have to be mounted at a certain place of rotation? like setting TDC on #1 etc?

nocarrier · 01-30-2016, 04:26 AM

It needs to be set so the cam signal is triggered a few degrees before cylinder 1 is at top dead center on the compression stroke.

That way the computer knows when cylinder 1 fires and can then calculate the next injection and firing for the next 5.

It can be set at any angle before cylinder 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke but NOT aligned with the tooth gap in the crank wheel.

Oheggem · 01-30-2016, 04:53 AM

So if i find TDC on compression stroke on #1, then turn crank anti-clockwise a few degrees, mark the air pulley, drill and tap. I got a Clewett pulley for the XDi btw.

nocarrier · 01-30-2016, 07:25 AM

That's exactly how I did it.

I'm running a 36 - 1 trigger wheel so.......

360 ÷ 36 = 10 degrees per tooth. Just take 360 and divide it by the number of teeth on your pulley to figure out how many degrees per tooth you rotate the engine in relation to the crank sensor.

This way you can figure out how many degrees BTDC on the compression stroke you are set at.

What I did was machine a center punch the same diameter as my sensor. When I had the engine set where I wanted it, I set the center punch in the hole and marked where to drill and tap it for the bolt.

I think mine is set somewhere between 20 and 30 degrees BTDC compression stroke if my memory is correct. The reason being was I set it so I was drilling into one of the "hills" of the air injection pulley/sproket instead of in one of the "valleys" yielding more material for the threads to be tapped into.

Oheggem · 01-31-2016, 02:54 AM

I got 60 - 2 wheel so that makes it 6 degrees pr tooth. So mount the hall sensor , set engine to TDC #1,turn the engine anti clockwise between 20-30 degrees (4 teeth), mark the air pump pulley at hall sensor, remove air pump pulley, drill and tap for bolt, install bolt with proper gap. Done.

Should be fairly easy

Pat RUFBTR · Pat RUFBTR's Garage

Oheggem · 01-31-2016, 01:22 PM

That picture is taken with engine at TDC 1 right as it looks like the marking on the cam is just off the sensor mark. This will be the way to go. Will order a threaded hall sensor asap.

Thx alot for the help guys. Muchos apprezh!!

Speedy Squirrel · Speedy Squirrel's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oheggem

I got 60 - 2 wheel so that makes it 6 degrees pr tooth. So mount the hall sensor , set engine to TDC #1,turn the engine anti clockwise between 20-30 degrees (4 teeth), mark the air pump pulley at hall sensor, remove air pump pulley, drill and tap for bolt, install bolt with proper gap. Done.

Should be fairly easy

If you have the DME flywheel, yo have the sync pin already in there too, don"t you? Seems like you can just use the flywheel.

Oheggem · 01-31-2016, 02:06 PM

No idea what flywheel i have. Probably standard one.

dap930 · dap930's Garage

This is what I did for my MS3/MS3X installation. I cut a section out of 3" exhaust pipe and tack welded it to the outside edge of the air pump cog pulley. The 3" exhaust pipe is the correct radius for the pulley. I drilled several holes through the area where the metal strip would set to help off set the weight of the strip prior to welding it in place. Set the engine to TDC with cylinder #1 in compression to locate the metal strip on the pulley in the quadrant before TDC. Also, be sure to know which direction the pulley turns when you turn over the engine.

I purchased a Cherry hall sensor and located a through hole in the scavenger pump cam housing. The Cherry sensor does not require a pull resistor, just a 5 or 12 VDC input, sensor ground and a 5 VDC output signal to MS3.

In Tuner Studio I used "poll level" for the cam input sensing scheme. This allows the program to take a "poll" when a cam sync input is required without you having to input exactly what degrees BTDC the cam sensor will send a signal in Tuner Studio.

b930 · 01-31-2016, 08:50 PM

You can gut the stock distributor and make a sync trigger like I did. I sold my old 930 dizzy so got a used (SC one I think) dizzy, gutted it and used a marelli mag sensor (Ford YB cosworth part readily available). Its shown in this thread.

Winter engine rebuild project

Oheggem · 02-01-2016, 05:54 AM

Assuming the pulley is still there, i will be going that route. Seems like the easier choice.

That cherry color hall sensor, is that the one from diyautotune? I can use that will the bolt way right? I think with my skillset for customization that is within reach. Also i don`t need any resistors or anything, hooks right up to the MS

dap930 · dap930's Garage

The Cherry Corp hall sensor I used was P/N GS100502, which comes with the wire leads (the body is anodized aluminum, red color). It is rated for -40 to 125* C. It has an M12 external thread, so I drilled the scavenger pump housing for a clearance hole. I spoke wrong (its been awhile since I wired this), it does require a pull up resistor, which is connected between the output signal and Vcc input voltage. It would connect between the brown and black leads. If you use 5VDC input voltage, a 1K resistor is required. If you use 12VDC input voltage a 2.4K resistor is required. You can google the part number to find several vendors who sell this (around $27).