What is the real deal on 930 pricing?

[bmachnee]

I read all of these forums and see the demand for these cars appear to go through the roof along with insurance costs and the necessary parts to keep these machines on the road. So my question to the many pelicanites that surf this forum is what are these cars really worth? Lets use my 930 as a target. It is a 87, Guards red with beige interior, Sports seats and is dam near stock with the exception with a 1 Bar spring in the Waste gate , Aftermarket muffler (not sure which one) and cup 2 wheels. Documented engine rebuild about 15,000 miles ago (98,000 on the clock), paint is about a 8 out of 10 but original. Interior is almost perfect.
I ask this question because I didn't buy this car 10 years ago due to it being a 930. It fell in my lap and as prices go up it might be time to cash in on it, pay off the house and focus efforts on another P car in my stable.

[scottrx7tt]

$60-80k? the more desirable ones seem to be the early ones, and the 964 and 993 era cars. You see a lot of cars on Ebay, but most of them are no sales. Asking prices are crazy on most, but the ones selling
Just scan completed listings on Ebay for a true valuation of most cars. Here is one that has some mods, etc, but i think it would probably bring the same $ if all stock.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Porsche-911-Turbo-930-/252328186838?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3abfee93d6%3Ag%3ApFAAAOSwDuJW1MoQ&item=252328186838&nma=true&si=9j80lmeOJWBEX2Q1hUwBczdSdl4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[02fly]

That's what i did, sold my 1976 930 and payed my house off and now i'm starting the restoration of my 1983 Cab

[Norm K]

You might find more opinions/information in the Marketplace forum. Asking prices are all over the board so I suspect that actual sell prices are as well. If you're not looking to get rich, price it right and it'll sell quickly (mine did). Get greedy and watch it languish. Bottom line: I don't think there's a specific formula, but the combination of realistic pricing and timing (an available ready, willing and able buyer) are probably the most important factors. If you want numbers, maybe post some quality pics. In the absence of those, my first-blush estimate, based on your description would be $65-$80K

[icemann427]

Unfortunately, most eBay sales occur outside of eBay. As such, its really difficult to ascertain a value from their completed sales. Additionally, I'm not sure Hagerty has their head on straight, either, with their incredibly high values. I'm guessing in excess of $80k for your's. Just not sure where the ceiling is. Try listing it on craigslist for a price and see what interest you get. Post a few ads in various cities within a thousand miles or so of you and see what happens.

Cheers

[T77911S]

its just like it was 4-5 yrs ago when I bought mine.

I see theses Ahole brokers and especially the hi end dealers out west jacking the price up because they can sit on the cars or with brokers they don't own it so they are not really concerned about selling it.

I did a thread on this back when I was looking for one.
I was extremely frustrated because I actually found previous listings of cars or sales of cars for a lower price than what the brokers/dealers were selling them for.
my complaint was for owners to stop giving their cars to brokers. I was finding that the brokers were re-listing the cars for 10-15k MORE than previous adds by the owners.

[Tom F2]

I have loved 930s since they were new, 1978, to be exact, when one came into the shop where I was working. I bought mine in 2002, when prices were still reasonable. Having watched the market this long, I have two thoughts.

First, these cars were under appreciated way too long. The obvious reasons were that they are difficult to service and temperamental to drive. But so are four-cam Carreras. I think that the differences with other "special" Porsche models is that the 930 had a long production run, long enough to morph into a 911, and that the car had a reputation as a Miami Beach, gold chain kind of toy, very showy and therefore un-Porsche-like. This reputation was not justified, because the 930, especially the 3.0 and early 3.3, is a true limited production Porsche model in details such as the welded fender flares. Around 2012, while the old car market was going crazy, some market makers realized that the 930 was a bargain, relatively speaking. They massaged demand and started a craze.

The second thought is that the run up in price also reflected a long delayed appreciation of what the cars are. They were too cheap, for too long. This led to many of them being poorly maintained, further damaging the reputation of the model. This is what E Type Jaguars went through in the 70s and 80s. The market for 930s, and all air cooled Porsches, is going through a correction. This means that prices are on their way to something reflecting actual value and supply, in other words somewhere in between their old under-prices, and their recent over-prices.

The time to shop for one will be when prices have fallen to the point where fewer people are listing them for sale, but I doubt that the cars will ever be cheap again. I should have sold mine already, but I am too attached to it to sell and confident that prices will stay higher than they were before the latest run up.

[1979-930]

Its investors that have too much money and need a place to put it that drives up prices. There are only so many places you can park money and have it keep up with inflation or appreciate. Cars have become and investment like property or art and are fairly liquid. There are several auctions a year and insider buying/selling between collectors. The fact that Porsche cars are now recognized in this category is a good thing. All the cars will be worth more. And the 70's 930 cars should be worth more. They were the best performance cars for those years and production numbers are low. That doesn't mean every car is now worth $200K.

Most of the "all original" 60's collector cars have gone into the $300K to $1M price range. The rest are complete restoration cars that came out of a field or wrecking yard and they still get $100K plus. In the 70's what other car would you collect? The American cars were all crap. So that leaves Porsche, Ferrari, ect. For the era I think the Porsche deserves to be worth more than the other cars. With the exception of the Countach.

There are people already speculating on the "collector" cars for the 80's and buying them now while they are cheap. There are people buying brand new high end performance cars today and parking them as assets.

[16Volt]

Originally Posted by Tom F2

I have loved 930s since they were new, 1978, to be exact, when one came into the shop where I was working. I bought mine in 2002, when prices were still reasonable. Having watched the market this long, I have two thoughts.

First, these cars were under appreciated way too long. The obvious reasons were that they are difficult to service and temperamental to drive. But so are four-cam Carreras. I think that the differences with other "special" Porsche models is that the 930 had a long production run, long enough to morph into a 911, and that the car had a reputation as a Miami Beach, gold chain kind of toy, very showy and therefore un-Porsche-like. This reputation was not justified, because that 930, especially the 3.0 and early 3.3, is a true limited production Porsche model in details such as the welded fender flares. Around 2012, while the old car market was going crazy, some market makers realized that the 930 was a bargain, relatively speaking. They massaged demand and started a craze.

The second thought is that the run up in price also reflected a long delayed appreciation of what the cars are. They were too cheap, for too long. This led to many of them being poorly maintained, further damaging the reputation of the model. This is what E Type Jaguars went through in the 70s and 80s. The market for 930s, and all air cooled Porsches, is going through a correction. This means that prices are on their way to something reflecting actual value and supply, in other words somewhere in between their old under-prices, and their recent over-prices.

The time to shop for one will be when prices have fallen to the point where fewer people are listing them for sale, but I doubt that the cars will ever be cheap again. I should have sold mine already, but I am too attached to it to sell and confident that prices will stay higher than they were before the latest run up.

We should sticky this response for every-time this 'value' discussion comes up.

[flightlead404]

Difficult to service? My previous 911SC and my current 930 are the easiest cars to work on that I've every owned! I don't get that statement at all.

[16Volt]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Difficult to service? My previous 911SC and my current 930 are the easiest cars to work on that I've every owned! I don't get that statement at all.

I think this comes from people seeing additional complexity as difficulty. They are not necessarily wrong, it can very well cost more to maintain a similar condition 930 than a SC. But I also think it comes from the collector market in general. It's allot cheaper to maintain a 68 Chevelle SS than it is a 930. IMHO.

[RarlyL8]

These cars are getting more expensive to maintain/repair with each passing year. It's unfortunate but they are an exotic of sorts and now also an antique.

[Discseven]

Not to diminish other Porsche models but the 930 is a special time capsule that embodies a unique era in Porsche's competitive past---it evolving for the street from the 917 and it being the homologation car spawning the 935. Setting aside how the 930 feels in hand & under foot, to appreciate this car's history adds nicely to its addictiveness---the car's history possibly being cause for its increasing appeal & value.

[Tom F2]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Difficult to service? My previous 911SC and my current 930 are the easiest cars to work on that I've every owned! I don't get that statement at all.

If you think a 930 is easy to service, then great! With an engine bay as cluttered as a 930 (think of setting the valves with the motor in the car), a motor as temperamental and parts as expensive as they are, I do not agree. I know of several excellent mechanics who will service all kinds of air cooled Porsches, but not 930s.

By way of example of what I mean by temperamental, the mechanic who last worked on my car before I got it set the CO level with the air injection connected. When I checked it, correctly with the air injection disabled, the reading was over 8%. The hot exhaust caused by the extra rich mixture and air injection had caused the paint to burn off the rear of the engine bay, the lower valance on the rear bumper and the lower edge of the engine lid. It also caused the grease to melt out of the left rear wheel bearing. I'm not sure whether it was the heat that ruined the turbocharger, but it was toast, too.

One point I would add to my earlier note is that the comparison with E Types is a little misleading. The E Type was a good car that happened to be really great looking. The 930 is a truly great car. The Jaguar kind of deserved its owners' neglect and resulting low value. It was not nearly as well developed a machine as the Porsche.

I hate to see the 930 be deemed to be an antique, let's call it a timeless classic.

[RarlyL8]

Timeless classic it is, I cringe when I see antique plates on a 930.
The 930 is tedious to work on until you become completely familiar. Most of us are familiar so it doesn't seem so bad. As the example states though, if you let a less experienced "mechanic" work on a 930 they WILL screw it up. And those screw ups are expensive.

Real world price check - I just had my insurance company do a replacement value update on my '85. We had a lengthy conversation on agreed replacement cost in the event of a total loss. Their research from all sources available put it at $60K for a daily driver to $150K for a collector grade car. I thought that to be pretty accurate in terms of what you could actually sell a typical 930 for today (to an enthusiast, not a flipper).

[bpu699]

I just spent the last two weekends changing the plugs... Easy to work on? Really?

I would say the entire car IS easy to work on, except anything in the engine bay...

[scottrx7tt]

Originally Posted by bpu699

I just spent the last two weekends changing the plugs... Easy to work on? Really?

I would say the entire car IS easy to work on, except anything in the engine bay...

Not really sure why it would take you that long to change the plugs. I can have the plugs changed out in about 45 minutes tops. If you still have the a/c compressor still in the car, I could see why it would take a little longer, but add 30 minutes for the R&R on that.

[Rick Crider]

I cannot let this thread just scroll past without chirping in.

Personally, I'm torn. I'm fortunate to have happened upon a 1976 930 more than a decade ago when searching for my 'last Porsche'. A lifetime keeper. I'd have still bought the car had it been a 77, 78, 79 or even mid / late 80's. After two 911's and a slew of Alfas, the lust for the power and stance of a wide-bodied, fat-tired, whale-tailed Porsche had not faded since reading about them just after high-school. I was staring fifty years old in the face. It was time. Time to consider MY wants. Time for that Type 930 Turbo. It took some wrangling of funds but money wasn't so scarce at the time. I'd need to give up an extremely nice SC and a beautiful, vintage Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider to make it work. It became a life goal. I'd shop, pick & choose without mercy until I found 'the last Porsche I'd ever need or want'. At the very top of the criteria list were three biggies: 1: Non-butchered beyond 'bolt-on, reversible' 2: Absolutely no rust and 3: No crash / wreck damage, no matter how well it may have been repaired. If that 930 happened to be Guard's Red, then all the better, but the color wasn't a make or break issue.

It took some searching but I found that car. I bonded with that car. I loved that car. I still do.

So, why torn? Because, due to the 'market', my 'last Porsche' is for sale now. I'm practically pissed at what the run-away 'market' has done. Now, eleven years later, I'm staring sixty years-old in the face. What can be accomplished with the sale proceeds is a simple math equation that the 'market' has forced me to consider. An equation that, if not for the 'market', simply wouldn't exist and I would continue just dabbling along with my other, non-automotive life projects. Without being forced to consider how they could be catapulted to completion with a lump-sum infusion by selling my 'last Porsche'.

Were it not for the 'market', I could just hop in the little red racer on a whim, not bothering to check the forecast for the possibility of rain four hours later. Maybe even take in a movie without the anxiety of knowing my extremely-red, extremely-attention-getting $100,000+ Porsche 930 Turbo sits unprotected among the hoard of Japanese econo-crap in the parking lot. Whose alloy Fuchs alone are more valuable than 20% of its parking-lot neighbors. While it's never been, and never would be, a daily driver, it's just not ‘practical’ to drive now.

I'm not strapped for cash, but I'm far from being wealthy enough to just throw all those concerns to the wind. They're very real.

So now ... thanks to the 'market' ... my 'last Porsche' has become the sacrificial lamb whose blood of green will spurt in several directions when let. Maybe even trickle a bit into another decent SC. Something I can drive to Wally-World without the need of an armed guard while parked. Something I won't have to quibble with the Hagerty rep about why I really don't need the $149,000 of insurance coverage that he's so adamant about.

I could go on and on but I'll wrap up this rambling diatribe here. Again, I consider myself fortunate to even own a very valuable and sought-after piece of automotive history. Still, I'm a bit angry with this whole 'market' thing and simply needed to vent a bit.

[Rick Crider]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Timeless classic it is, I cringe when I see antique plates on a 930.

Just for you, Brian ... your cringe quota for the day ...

[RarlyL8]

Were it not for the 'market', I could just hop in the little red racer on a whim, not bothering to check the forecast for the possibility of rain four hours later. Maybe even take in a movie without the anxiety of knowing my extremely-red, extremely-attention-getting $100,000+ Porsche 930 Turbo sits unprotected among the hoard of Japanese econo-crap in the parking lot. Whose alloy Fuchs alone are more valuable than 20% of its parking-lot neighbors. While it's never been, and never would be, a daily driver, it's just not ‘practical’ to drive now.

Which is one or the reasons I built the Red Rocket. That "bastard" was pure fun without any of the guilt! You have to keep those cars though as you are hard pressed to get your money back out of them. My attitude toward the gray slant is not so different, it was a 60K mile car when I bought it that is charging to 100K and beyond, and will be enjoyed as long as I am able. When I can no longer push the clutch it will pay for a soft bed at the home and a cute nurse to wipe my butt.