SC Cam labor time estimate?

[cmarkin]

Good morning and happy Monday everyone,

A quick question. I've had such a fun time with Brian's headers, street muffler, and 7200 turbo upgrade, and it seems that the missing link to all of these upgrades is the SC cams...

It is highly possible that this little '84 turbo will rarely- if ever see track time, so to have the maximum giggle potential extrapolated from this set up -should I wrap it up with the SC cam swap? It's a blast to drive as is, but it would be nice to wake it up on the low end. I have little need for top end speed; most of my fun happens under 100mph.

So what should I expect for labor cost to install the cams? That is my Monday morning question.

Thanks!

[JFairman]

If you do it yourself one afternoon the labor cost is nothing.
You may be able to borrow the tools needed or you can buy them here for less than $200.
You need a good dial gauge and z block to mount it to the cam towers while timing the cams and the long handled wrench that keeps the cam from turning while you tighten the bolt that holds the cam sprocket on with a torque wrench. I think your '84 uses a 19mm bolt. Older motors use a large nut.

Wayne's 911 engine rebuild book covers cam timing very well and I'm sure you'd get plenty of help here and in the engine forum too.
I've done cam timing while the engine is in the car with the rear motor mount bolts removed and the engine fan end of the motor lowered down on to a jack stand about 8" and the engine tins removed.
Good time to repaint the engine tins if they need it.

[Black_Hat]

THIS video explains valve timing .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPGGtiAeGAs.

I tried to explain to a friend, the more he read the more confused he got , he watched this a couple of times and timed his cams perfect

[krasuskyp]

cams make the car entirely more driveable - the difference is palpable and worth the time

DIY is not for the squeamish

and it's a job best done along with other work (resealing, etc.)

report back 8-)

[krasuskyp]

Originally Posted by JFairman

...Older motors use a large nut...

Be on the lookout for our new user here OlderMotors'Turbo fka Rawknees ffka Ronnie

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by JFairman

Older motors use a large nut.

Also known as, a "Paul"!

[cmarkin]

Paul? We must be related:-)~

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by JFairman

If you do it yourself one afternoon the labor cost is nothing.
You may be able to borrow the tools needed or you can buy them here for less than $200.
You need a good dial gauge and z block to mount it to the cam towers while timing the cams and the long handled wrench that keeps the cam from turning while you tighten the bolt that holds the cam sprocket on with a torque wrench. I think your '84 uses a 19mm bolt. Older motors use a large nut.

Wayne's 911 engine rebuild book covers cam timing very well and I'm sure you'd get plenty of help here and in the engine forum too.
I've done cam timing while the engine is in the car with the rear motor mount bolts removed and the engine fan end of the motor lowered down on to a jack stand about 8" and the engine tins removed.
Good time to repaint the engine tins if they need it.

You can change out the cams in an afternoon?! Wow, I am impressed.

Most days it takes me that long to change the plugs, or adjust the valves...

I would assume changing the cams would take the better part of the winter season for me. Don't you need to drop the motor? Retime the cams? How the heck do you get a degree wheel on there with the motor in?!

I was doing a major on my testarossa, and you are supposed to check the valve timing. I must have done it 15 different times to make sure it was right... This was the first time I had ever done it, but it was more nerve racking than I expected...

[onboost]

Originally Posted by cmarkin

to have the maximum giggle potential extrapolated from this set up -should I wrap it up with the SC cam swap? It's a blast to drive as is, but it would be nice to wake it up on the low end. I have little need for top end speed; most of my fun happens under 100mph.

So what should I expect for labor cost to install the cams? That is my Monday morning question.

Thanks!

Yes, I think its a worthwhile swap as the SC cam will "wake it up on the low end."

However, the labor cost is kind-of-a loaded question based on numerous factors. Obviously you aren't looking at doing it yourself.. which is fine, cause it ain't for everybody!

That being said, it really depends on who you're taking it too.. somebody who knows these cars, has the right set-up and tools can swap cams with motor in the car in an afternoon as JF suggested. Others may prefer to remove the motor just to get-at things better.. and then of course there will be the "while you're in there" factor. You're gonna obviously reseal cam boxes, and valve covers etc.. but there will be a few other gaskets, seals, O-rings and crush washers etc.. to replace. A lot of this will depend on how thorough your tech is, and there shouldn't be much if any add'l labor for most since its opened up anyway.. just add'l, yet minimal for parts.

Anyway, I think you're looking at 8hrs labor in most places. Some I know of will be closer to 12hrs just to cover anything unexpected.

[cmarkin]

@Onboost

Thank you Sir; that, was exactly what I was looking for...

[bpu699]

My car has pretty much what yours does, and sc cams...

I havent driven any other 930, but I can tell you that tmy car's power delivery is pretty linear on the track. It definitely isnt like an "on and off switch." Which is great, as it prevents some of the nasty tendencies that the 930 was known for...

Bo

[RarlyL8]

SC cams are my go-to on every street build. Fantastic upgrade with no down side.
We charge 4 hrs for a cam swap an 8 hrs if you want the engine out for the while you are in there stuff.

[cmarkin]

Thank you everyone for the guidance, and now for the inevitable question:

Where can I get a (solid non torn up) set?

[Skillet83]

Can someone explain in layman's terms what the cams do as far as driving experience? I have a similar set up as the OP. Brian's headers, zork tube, K27. Something that you can really notice/feel performance wise? Sorry for the hijack.

[RarlyL8]

SC cams are more responsive, add more torque off-boost and add more power on-boost. They improve the drivability of the engine, wake it up. They also reduce turbo lag just a touch as a result of that responsiveness. They really are a no lose proposition in my opinion. The only mod done to my "baseline engine" gray slant at the moment is my muffler and SC cams. The difference just those 2 mods make is night and day. Add the headers turbo and intercooler like you did and you have a completely different car.

[Skillet83]

Thank you Brian

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

SC cams are more responsive, add more torque off-boost and add more power on-boost. They improve the drivability of the engine, wake it up. They also reduce turbo lag just a touch as a result of that responsiveness. They really are a no lose proposition in my opinion. The only mod done to my "baseline engine" gray slant at the moment is my muffler and SC cams. The difference just those 2 mods make is night and day. Add the headers turbo and intercooler like you did and you have a completely different car.

Brian, slightly off topic... but curious about your mufflers... This ties together to the OP question as its a performance add on question...

How much horsepower over stock does adding a flow through muffler add?

Also, your mufflers, are they baffled, or is it a straight shot through? Steel baffles? Is it fiberglass packed?

Asking as I have some kind of one off muffler on my car, as its a 930 to 965 body appearance. Muffler is loud, cant hear the turbo whine at all...

Just trying to figure out if using one of your mufflers I can get it quieter, while not losing any power...

Thoughts?

I suspect I have some kind of cherry bomb type internals, though I cant really tell.

Can you share info on the construction of your muffler? (difference between street, race, hooligan, etc)...

Thanks

[pkabush]

Originally Posted by cmarkin

Thank you everyone for the guidance, and now for the inevitable question:

Where can I get a (solid non torn up) set?

I pmd you. I have a pair in VGC

[flightlead404]

On a somewhat related topic, is it generally recommended to have the original cams reground to SC spec, or pick up a set of new cams?

If new cams, do they need something special for an oil pump? I seem to remember that the turbo needs to drive an oil pump with one cam and needs to have an extra section of cam, but I can't find anything in the search tool and my reference material is all in boxes (just moved, ugh).

I'm inclined to just order a set of new cams and keep the original ones, partly for down time and also because I'm keeping original parts (turbo, I/C, and so on).

And, when replacing cams, I'm assuming the rockers should be reconditioned and rebushed at the same time, new seals, locks and so on.

Does one also replace or do anything with valve springs etc?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by pkabush

I have a pair in VGC

A "70's pair" ?!?!?!