Retroair complete system in my non a/c car

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

I received my Retroair complete system kit for my 1981 SC Turbo non a/c car. Some will ask why would you put an aftermarket system in a 911? The answer is Texas 100* temps. There is very little that is original on this car so that is not a factor.
I unpacked the kit, it was packed well and all there. I will try to post every day or two with my progress. If you have done one of these, let me know.
I will have to build a bracket to mount the condenser with some aluminum angle mounted to the bolts that hold the tail rubber.
There will be some cutting in the smuggler's box for cabin air, fresh air and cold air back into the cabin. I will also have to clean out the wiring and vent from a heater that used to be in there.
The compressor mount looks like a challenge, not sure how all of this lines up yet.

JFairman · 12-12-2014, 07:06 AM

Congratulations! Looks like a really nice AC kit. I replaced all the AC stuff in mine too and I like 911 AC install threads. Everything else in you motor compartment looks real nice so I"m sure yours will be a good one.
Good luck with it!

Ronnie's.930 · 12-12-2014, 09:03 AM

WOW, Steve, you don't waste time, do you!? Man, that kit really looks excellent and like Jim above, I'm really looking forward to your a/c thread. I'll be watching and will try to answer any questions you have during the install. I've never installed a kit like that, but I do have quite a bit of automotive a/c experience in burn ass climate conditions(so does Jim/JFairman).

Maybe you have seen some of my a/c "I love me" posts in other threads, but I have recently been able to get outstanding performance out of my self-modified system (talking below freezing vent temps in ambient near 100 degrees here in Texass) and let me tell you, it is really nice to be able to have a/c in the car that actually works at such a high level in the extreme heat around here. You are going to love it!

Steve, are you going to do the system evacuation and charge procedures (don't know if you have the equipment/experience for that)? I ask, because with decades of trial and error, and with lots of help from people more experienced than I am, I have really got that stuff down to a science, and would be more than willing to help if you need it (on here, or by phone if that is more convenient).

Regardless, great project you have in front of you!

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFairman

Congratulations! Looks like a really nice AC kit. I replaced all the AC stuff in mine too and I like 911 AC install threads. Everything else in you motor compartment looks real nice so I"m sure yours will be a good one.
Good luck with it!

WOW, Steve, you don't waste time, do you!? Man, that kit really looks excellent and like Jim above, I'm really looking forward to your a/c thread. I'll be watching and will try to answer any questions you have during the install. I've never installed a kit like that, but I do have quite a bit of automotive a/c experience in burn ass climate conditions(so does Jim/JFairman).

Thanks JFairman and Ronnie's930 for the positive comments! I need some of that to kick off this project.

This morning I decided to work on the compressor since I could not visualize the 3 piece mount in my head. I didn't have to install a pulley because my car already had one. I still had to unbolt the rear motor mount and drop the motor down a ways to put the belt on. If you do this hang on to the spacers or they will drop down into a hole and you will have to dig them out with a grabber, they are not magnetic.

I installed the bracket starting with the bottom piece to the rear of the engine.
The cradle came next bolted up loosely then the brace which bolts along the edge of the intake on the bolts that hold the tin. I had to find some longer bolts for this. I had to grind off 1"x3/4 from the front corner of this piece to clear the intake.

Before I could get the compressor to fit into the cradle I had to shim it forward at the brace with a couple of washers. It is a really tight fit at the front of the manifold.
I had to go and buy a few metric bolts for the lower brackets that were missing from my engine so I will tighten and align it all tomorrow.

JFairman · 12-12-2014, 04:06 PM

Now the fun part... running the hoses. It can be dirty at times and safety glasses will keep dirt and sand out of your eyes while fiddleing with them in the left front wheel well.
I like to put a little AC oil on the green orings and the fitting threads before screwing them together. The oring fittings shouldn't be real tight. Just somewhere in between snug and tight.

If you don't have a vacuum pump you can probably rent one and the longer you let it run the better. I run mine 3 hours and then close the shut off valve on the vacuum pump and leave it overnight with the gauge manifold still connected and then check it the next day and if it hasn't leaked down I run it another 2 or 3 hours and then connect the refrigerant bottle, purge the air out of the yellow hose where it screws on to the manifold and charge it.
With 40 plus feet of AC hose and multiple heat exchangers it can take a while to hopefully suck all the humidity moisture out down here in Florida.

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFairman

Now the fun part... running the hoses. It can be dirty at times and safety glasses will keep dirt and sand out of your eyes while fiddling with them in the left front wheel well.
I like to put a little AC oil on the green orings and the fitting threads before screwing them together. The oring fittings shouldn't be real tight. Just somewhere in between snug and tight.

If you don't have a vacuum pump you can probably rent one and the longer you let it run the better. I run mine 3 hours and then close the shut off valve on the vacuum pump and leave it overnight with the gauge manifold still connected and then check it the next day and if it hasn't leaked down I run it another 2 or 3 hours and then connect the refrigerant bottle, purge the air out of the yellow hose where it screws on to the manifold and charge it.
With 40 plus feet of AC hose and multiple heat exchangers it can take a while to hopefully suck all the humidity moisture out down here in Florida.

The good news is that this car is as clean on the bottom as it is on the top so dirt won't be a major problem. Since the car doesn't have old hoses to remove, what is the best way to route them?
As much as I hate to let anyone else touch my car I figured I would have to pay someone to evacuate and charge it. Where would I go to rent this equipment? May be a new plan.

Iciclehead · 12-13-2014, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Euro

The good news is that this car is as clean on the bottom as it is on the top so dirt won't be a major problem. Since the car doesn't have old hoses to remove, what is the best way to route them?
As much as I hate to let anyone else touch my car I figured I would have to pay someone to evacuate and charge it. Where would I go to rent this equipment? May be a new plan.

I put the Retroaire kit in my car a couple of years back, a good experience.

In terms of charging, none of the local AC shops were interested in working on an old car with a "custom" air conditioning set up, so I just went to Napa, bought a vacuum pump, hose set and cans of R-134a. Whole set up cost me a couple of hundred bucks....still less than what a shop would have charged.

The process is pretty easy, vacuum the crap out of it....long time to get the moisture out. Hook up the hoses, follow the instructions that come with them and away you go. My car takes about one 18 oz can of R134, don't forget to add the PAG oil as per instructions.

I think it was cheaper and now I know it is done right. To be honest, I had a small leak (one of the hoses hooked to the compressor was just a hair loose), so the system leaked out all of the refrigerant over a 2 year period and I had to do it over this spring. Been fine since then....

Dennis

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

I put the Retroaire kit in my car a couple of years back, a good experience.

In terms of charging, none of the local AC shops were interested in working on an old car with a "custom" air conditioning set up, so I just went to Napa, bought a vacuum pump, hose set and cans of R-134a. Whole set up cost me a couple of hundred bucks....still less than what a shop would have charged.

The process is pretty easy, vacuum the crap out of it....long time to get the moisture out. Hook up the hoses, follow the instructions that come with them and away you go. My car takes about one 18 oz can of R134, don't forget to add the PAG oil as per instructions.

I think it was cheaper and now I know it is done right. To be honest, I had a small leak (one of the hoses hooked to the compressor was just a hair loose), so the system leaked out all of the refrigerant over a 2 year period and I had to do it over this spring. Been fine since then....
Dennis

Sounds like a great idea! I used to have all of the equipment 30 or 40 years ago. Always came in handy.

Ronnie's.930 · 12-13-2014, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Euro

The good news is that this car is as clean on the bottom as it is on the top so dirt won't be a major problem. Since the car doesn't have old hoses to remove, what is the best way to route them?

There are some decent pictures of the house routing in the following thread -

Pics of hoses going to/from A/C Evaporator?

That's interesting that you had to lower your engine some to get the compressor belt on . . . guess that is due to the Turbo engine in the non-turbo 911 tub?

JFairman · 12-13-2014, 11:12 AM

I found that here in S. Florida having a shop do the evacuation and R134 charge once would be about the same price as buying a new vacuum pump and manifold gauges and I doubt they would run the vacuum pump as long as I do.

Around 7 years ago I found a place selling a new Robinair (15434) 2-Stage, 4 CFM vacuum pump on sale for around $225 so I bought it and Mastercool manifold gauges for around $75. This is a very nice vacuum pump and it sucks the whole AC system down to 29" of vacuum in about 15 minutes but I leave the pump running at least 3 hours to boil more moisture out of the system. 911's probably have more AC hose length in them than any other car.

Today on amazon the same stuff is:
Amazon.com: Robinair (15434) CoolTech Vacuum Pump - 2-Stage, 4 CFM: Automotive
Oil for it:
Amazon.com: Robinair 13203 Premium High Vacuum Pump Oil - 1 Quart: Automotive
Mastercool manifold gauges:
Amazon.com: Mastercool 66661 Brass Manifold Gauge Set: Automotive

I'm glad I bought the equipment because I've had to do it over more than once over the years so I saved a lot of money doing it myself. I've used it on other cars too.
There's a lot of different vacuum pumps out there but I would recommend buying a good one that's made in the USA.

Ronnie's.930 · 12-13-2014, 11:49 AM

Jim makes good points about buying your own, quality, a/c equipment. In the past, I've owned Harbor Freight specials, and now have Robinair gear - no comparison between the two, and I use it on all of my vehicles (sometimes on those of friends and family, too), so the much greater purchase price seems worth it.

I also finally bought a 30lb tank of Dupont r134a last year (bought from an eBay link Jim posted a while back). Using the tank is much quicker than cans and also means you only have to purge the gauge manifold once since the "can switching" is eliminated. Even with using it on multiple vehicles each year, that can is going to last me a looooonnnnggggg time.

Here it is (I couldn't find a price anywhere near this good at the time) -

Dupont Suva 134a 30lbs Can Refrigerant Freon R 134a Factory SEALED | eBay

JFairman · 12-13-2014, 11:49 AM

FWIW, while doing google searches to find current prices on RobinAir stuff I found the RobinAir vacuum pump oil for a lot less than I'm used to paying for it when buying online from Advance auto parts.
Just ordered 2 quarts from advance auto parts.. it's 15% off today and shipping was free while using paypal to pay for it.
RobinAir 1 Qt. A/C Premium High Vacuum Pump Oil ROB13203: Upgrade with the best AC Gauges/Specialty Tool at Advance Auto Parts

Iciclehead · 12-13-2014, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFairman

FWIW, while doing google searches to find current prices on RobinAir stuff I found the RobinAir vacuum pump oil for a lot less than I'm used to paying for it when buying online from Advance auto parts.
Just ordered 2 quarts from advance auto parts.. it's 15% off today and shipping was free while using paypal to pay for it.
RobinAir 1 Qt. A/C Premium High Vacuum Pump Oil ROB13203: Upgrade with the best AC Gauges/Specialty Tool at Advance Auto Parts

How critical is it to change oil on the pump? Mine has been used exactly twice, running time under 8 hours.....need to change the oil or does it last a long time?

Dennis

JFairman · 12-13-2014, 12:59 PM

I guess it depends how much you like your pump and how long you want it to last.
RobinAir suggests changing the oil every time you use it to get the deepest vacuum possible and make the pump last longer.

Water vapor it sucks out of your AC system gets mixed into the oil. With the pump I have there is a round sight window to see the oil level in the pump and you can see the oil get cloudy with moisture it's sucked out of the AC system getting mixed into it after running a while.
Then if you open the gas ballast valve on the pump steam starts slowly coming out and the oil gets clear again after 10 minutes. Being a 2 stage pump you can open the gas ballast valve while it's running and it doesn't loose any vacuum. The gas ballast valve is a nice feature not all of them have.

I used to change the oil in the pump after every third use because I'm a cheap old fart. Now that I just found the RobinAir oil for less than half what I've been paying for it locally when I can find it I'll change it after every use. Mine is like new still and I want to take good care of it.

Here's the owners manual from RobinAir. They answer your question.
http://www.robinair.com/sites/default/files/115247.pdf

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFairman

I guess it depends how much you like your pump and how long you want it to last.
RobinAir suggests changing the oil every time you use it to get the deepest vacuum possible and make the pump last longer.
Here's the owners manual from RobinAir. They answer your question.
http://www.robinair.com/sites/default/files/115247.pdf

Thanks for the link, I will study this when I get a chance. Any Idea where I could rent one of these?

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

I have 2 parts cars with these in them. If you want any photos of the cut into the cockpit, let me know.

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

There are some decent pictures of the house routing in the following thread -

Pics of hoses going to/from A/C Evaporator?

That's interesting that you had to lower your engine some to get the compressor belt on . . . guess that is due to the Turbo engine in the non-turbo 911 tub?

Thanks Ronnie's.930 for the link, there are some great pictures here of the hose routing, will come in handy.
I was a little surprised about the clearance problems around the pulley also. I am not sure if all of these cars have the same type of rear mount brace as mine. The big chrome one that goes from side to side. There is only about 1/8" of clearance to the pulley at that point. Since I already had the double pulley, Retroair didn't send a new one and saved me $50 bucks but now that the compressor is installed the belt is too long. So... shorter belt or larger pulley?

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclebilly

I have 2 parts cars with these in them. If you want any photos of the cut into the cockpit, let me know.

Thanks, unclebilly. I would love to see them. I am looking forward to the fabrication in the smugglers box and cockpit to be the most challenging part of this install.

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Jim makes good points about buying your own, quality, a/c equipment. In the past, I've owned Harbor Freight specials, and now have Robinair gear - no comparison between the two, and I use it on all of my vehicles (sometimes on those of friends and family, too), so the much greater purchase price seems worth it.

I also finally bought a 30lb tank of Dupont r134a last year (bought from an eBay link Jim posted a while back). Using the tank is much quicker than cans and also means you only have to purge the gauge manifold once since the "can switching" is eliminated. Even with using it on multiple vehicles each year, that can is going to last me a looooonnnnggggg time.

Here it is (I couldn't find a price anywhere near this good at the time) -

Dupont Suva 134a 30lbs Can Refrigerant Freon R 134a Factory SEALED | eBay

Thanks for all of the info on this JFairman and Ronnie's.930! I am going to try to work this into my budget, seems like the way to go. Too bad you guys don't live just down the street, I could find something for you to do.!

Bucketlist · Bucketlist's Garage

Yesterday I had to pull the compressor mount off and modify the top brace some more so the lower mounts would line up correctly. This is such a tight fit behind the compressor at the intake and the idler pulley to the engine mount brace. The mod on that brace is now about 1x1 to clear the bump in front of the cradle and I had to smooth the curves so it would lay down flat. The compressor is about finished other than the belt is too long. I didn't change the pulley because there was one already there. This saved me $50 bucks but I'll bet the replacement is larger causing the belt problem. I will talk to Rock at Retroair tomorrow.
I started to fabricate a mount for the condenser. This mounts to the existing bolts that hold the tail rubber. Still needs a little, but I think it will work. I have no idea how the factory condenser was mounted. If you think this is a bad idea let me know.