Euro (ROW) distributor on US 930

[Pesch]

Hello folks,

My 87 US 930 is soon to arrive in Europe after last year road trip in US.

On arrival, I plan to perform some maintenance and tuning as it sat for a while and injection was far from perfect (pig rich and rough acceleration).
I'm getting a BL WUR soon and will be installing a wideband AFR data-logging.

I have also a Euro distributor and was wondering if I could just hook it up with Euro advance to get a bump in performances and driveability?

Car has so far:
- GLS headers
- K27 7006 turbo
- Kokeln intercooler
- SC regrind

I still have to figure out what have been done on the lambda system by previous owner.

Thanks

[boosted79]

The Euro dizzy gives 30* advance and is designed for 93 octane so as long as you can get that should be no problem.

US 93 = EU 98

[RarlyL8]

I've done that mod many times for the same reason, they have the most aggressive timing curve and are very simple mechanically. We set the timing at 26° and use USA 89 octane fuel. Done this for decades with only good results. The Euro distributor is an easy low-tech upgrade that doesn't seem to be utilized much with all the other options available today.

[356911930]

Brian,

Isn't the Euro distributor the same as the early 1976-77 turbo distributors? Are you setting the timing to 26* at 4,000 RPM?

Rahl

[T77911S]

what is the boost retard for this dist?

[356911930]

I think that the Euro Distributor only has vacuum advance which dumps when pressure goes positive. Plus the mechanical advance which is 10* IIRC.

Rahl

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by boosted79

The Euro dizzy gives 30* advance and is designed for 93 octane so as long as you can get that should be no problem.

US 93 = EU 98

I don't understand how this is a function of the different distributors, as if I want to set my USA/two vac pot at 30* advance, as opposed to 26, I can.



Brian, if you set the Euro to 26* advance (the stock advance spec for mid-late 80's, non-Euro distributors), what is point of using the Euro?

Not trying to be a jackass, but honestly don't know/understand the difference or advantage between the two, with regard to mechanical advance (which is what is in play at the 26-30 degrees point).

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Not trying to be a jackass,

Does anyone else find it hysterical that he has to actually state that he isn't being a jackass, because otherwise we would automatically assume he is? hahahaha

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

I don't understand how this is a function of the different distributors, as if I want to set my USA/two vac pot at 30* advance, as opposed to 26, I can.



Brian, if you set the Euro to 26* advance (the stock advance spec for mid-late 80's, non-Euro distributors), what is point of using the Euro?

Not trying to be a jackass, but honestly don't know/understand the difference or advantage between the two, with regard to mechanical advance (which is what is in play at the 26-30 degrees point).

And now a serious answer. LOL

I am pretty sure that the centrifugal advance curves and the vacuum retard curves are considerably different between USA and ROW and even California and Japan are different too.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ

Does anyone else find it hysterical that he has to actually state that he isn't being a jackass, because otherwise we would automatically assume he is? hahahaha

Speaking of ass - ready thy lips, Jeff!

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

I've done that mod many times for the same reason, they have the most aggressive timing curve and are very simple mechanically. We set the timing at 26° and use USA 89 octane fuel. Done this for decades with only good results. The Euro distributor is an easy low-tech upgrade that doesn't seem to be utilized much with all the other options available today.

Some of us are listening. But the issue is finding one to purchase.
I've seen ROW Dizzy's with the USA vacuum pot on them. It's frustrating.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

The non-Euro distributor is at full mechanical advance (26* or wherever you want to set it) a little ahead of 4K rpm (not exactly sure where, but it's definitely all in - more than just the tip - by 4k), so does "more aggressive timing curve" mean that the Euro version is at full advance at 3K rpm (or there abouts . . . softer springs on the advance plate weights???)?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

Some of us are listening.

You're going to be listening to the sound of my boot hittin' dat' ass, if you don't watch out, Deez!!!

[RarlyL8]

Yes the curve of the Euro gets more timing in quicker than the USA or Japan units.
I hate to open this chewed up can of worms, but there is no boost retard. There is failure to advance due to the lack of vacuum. The Euro has only one pot - vacuum advance, which I block off and use only the mechanical advance. We further enhance this with old school mods to bring the advance in even quicker.

[Pesch]

Thanks all for the inputs.

So Euro distributor and stock advance will be installed as soon as I have checked all vacuum and pressure hoses.

Then SP98 fuel

[356911930]

Brian, are you setting the timing to 26* at 4,000 RPM or is that at idle?

Sounds too high for idle as that would give you about 36* advance at 4,000 RPM.

Sounds too low for setting it to 26* at 4,000 RPM as ramp up would be too slow with no vacuum advance.

Rahl

[Speedy Squirrel]

Hmm... don't think I agree with a few of these comments. Here are the curves:






"The Euro dizzy gives 30* advance ..." - No, they are both capable of 30 degrees advance, depending on what static timing you use. Euro runs 20 degrees of static timing. US runs 10 degrees (when timed at 26 degrees with hoses disconnected).

"...they have the most aggressive timing curve". - No, the US curve is more aggressive. It advances further, 16 crank degrees (8 distributor), and faster, by 2800 crank RPM (1400 distributor). The EURO distributor advances 12 crank degrees by 3200 crank RPM.

"Isn't the Euro distributor the same as the early 1976-77 turbo distributors?" - No the early distributors rotated clockwise, and had different centrifugal curves.

"Yes the curve of the Euro gets more timing in quicker than the USA or Japan units." - No, the opposite is true.

If you set the total timing at 30 crank degrees at 4000 with the hose disconnected, you will have the same total advance as the EURO distributor, and a "more aggressive" centrifugal advance.

[boosted79]

There is boost retard on the Cali dizzy, plainly visible in the retard curve. One side of the pot gets vac, the other boost. The boost side pulls 6* at .3 B boost, clearly shown on the retard graph.

Graph courtesy of Speedy Squirrel from this thread. "Does anyone understand the ignition curves in the WSM"



Euro timing at 6k crank rpm = 0+20+10 = 30 total.

[boosted79]

Forgot the Cali curve.

[boosted79]

I was typing while Speedy was typing, oh well, lots of curves to look at now.