911 SC Engine Removal
 

This is my first time removing my engine and I'm having trouble separating the engine from the transmission. As you can see in photo, I'm almost there but engine is as far as it can go in compartment. I can wiggle the engine and have tried to move up and down but just can't clear bolts. Any tips appreciated as I seem to be stuck.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546728672.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546728672.jpg

you might need to raise the car higher, allowing more of a drop/angle and you should get clearance at that point

Thanks Steve. Just raise the rear and not front to get angle? Do I need to support transmission?

You need to remove the short clutch arm on the bottom of the trans so the fingers will let go of the TOB.
Not experienced, you need to remove the engine/trans together but it’s too”late now.
Unhook the shifter in the back seat access to hang the trans.
And the accelerator rod.
Bruce

Bruce,
Thanks. I removed the clutch cable assembly and the hex screw from the back seat access. Am I missing something else? Agree, I was thinking I should have removed both together about halfway into trying to separate engine from tranny.

make sure you pull the shifter coupling off of the transmission tail shaft or you could damage the transmission and /or tunnel

-did you disconnect the reverse light and speedo wires? they are part of the engine harness

Steve,
Definitely removed the reverse light switch from transmission because one of the wires came lose and I'm going to have to repair. Don't know about speedo wire specifically but all harnessess have been disconnected. Everything looks and feels disconnected; it just seems there isn't enough room for the bolts to clear so the engine can be lowered. When I try to lower it hangs up.

I have the same car as you, 1980SC Targa

Did you remove the circlip off the clutch levers then remove the short lever as the spring lever is an idle arm, and possibly pinned in place. If you have a pin in the spring arm, once you’re separated, remove the pin and don’t replace. Reinstalling, the spring arm need to be cleaned and lubed to idle on the vertical.
Now, it is possible that the large arm is frozen on the vertical and not free to spin.
If all else fails, pull the 9 8mm Allen bolts off the pressure plate through the starter hole
Bruce

You need the chassis bumper high enough to clear the injection
I’ll see if I can find a picture
Bruce

Bruce,
I believe I did all that except taking allen bolts off pressure plate. Basically followed all the steps in Wayne's book and in the tech articles plus what I've read on the forum. The engine feels removed from transmission and moves freely but seems to be hanging up on the bolts and no further room in engine compartment to move off bolts as shown in first photo.

Unless I'm still missing something engine seems separated from transmission aside from bolts.

Again first time doing this.

Bumper up
 

The picture is a 3.2 and G50 but it typical
Bruce


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546744986.jpg

are you sure you have the rear of the car up high enough?

If I continue to jack the car up, the engine will come up with it because it's still slightly connected to transmission. I feel I will damage something since bolts aren't entirely clear. It's close, it looks like I have about a half inch of threads to go as seen in photo, but bolts aren't clearing transmission.

Will the bolts clear if I lift rear end further?

I understand the car will need jacked high up to get engine out as shown in Bruces photo. I can't lower my engine due to bolts not clearing between engine and transmission as shown in photo.

maybe push the motor back onto the trans, then jack up the rear of the car more (I don't have Waynes book here but I think he has a dimension in the book for how high to jack up) the trans mounts will flex and let the motor tilt down farther, you could bend the engine studs (or worse damage the case) if the motor is barely hanging on

My understanding is once the engine mounts are removed you should be able move the engine away from the transmission far enough to lower the engine and then jack the rear of the car up further to clear the engine and remove engine. right now my car is relatively level so the engine and transmission are aligned as I pull the engine away.

First time engine removal..........
 

Subseamark,

There is a good reason why dropping the engine and transmission together makes more sense. Unless you are an experienced mechanic with the right set up, removing the engine alone is not as easy as you think for 911 engines. And because of this controversial procedure, I contacted more than 50 Diyer’s, Porsche mechanics, shop owners, and engine rebuilders across the country and a few from overseas to find out their preferred procedures or methods.

The question was “ I have an SC with 915 manual transmission and like to do a clutch job so what is your preferred method?”.
a). Remove the engine and transmission as a tandem. Or
b). Remove the engine separately and leave the transmission in the car.

Everyone recommended “a” except for one who claimed to do both “a” and “b”. There were 3 known individuals well known in this forum who advocated “b” method. So in my spare time, I contacted some via emails and drove hundreds of miles to personally interviewed some of these participants in my survey.

Tony

Thanks Tony, but since I maybe ignorantly went for choice b and am now fairly far down that path, any words of wisdom from your emails and personal interviews? Should I see if I can put engine back in transmission re-bolt and drop both?

Mark,

I don’t think you are too far down the road to change your method of removal to include the trans. If you can get something under the trans to support and help drop it with the engine as once piece you may as well disconnect the clutch cable and unbolt the trans mount leaving everything partially disconnected (engine from the trans).
Even if you are able to disconnect and remove the engine only, I cant imagine reconnecting it when you put the engine back in is going to be very easy. :)

yes, good point, I can't imagine trying to realign the engine to the transmission while under the car. New day tomorrow and will see if I can get engine out and if not will borrow a friends transmission jack and remove both simoultaneously. Either way I agree, the engine and transmission are going back in as one unit. Thanks :)

Hi Mark, I have just yesterday finished removing the engine (so leaving the trans on the car) from my 1979 SC. It was my first time too and I recognize the situation you're in :-)
The two critical components (in my case) were the vent on the back of the engine (hits the rear bumper of car) and the top right bolt that connects engine to trans (that's the largest bolt as it also connects starter engine)

What we did is simply to carefully lower the engine further (indeed, the trans gets pulled down a bit as well) and move it backwards further until all bolts were free. Needless to say you need sufficient clearance (mine was on a bridge)

Again, pay attention to the top right bolt while doing so. Good luck!

+1. By far the esiest way to pull the engine - and get it back in!

Pic shows it's misaligned.

Fix that and it should ease out nice and easy like a knife thru butter.

Pmax,
I’ve been adjusting the engine and transmission and everything freely moves, just not far enough back to clear bolts. Fan is flush against back of engine compartment with no room to clear bolts.

Makes me wonder if longer spec studs were put in at some point. Only need about 1/4-1/2”

^^^
Need to get to this as per Wayne's book. Hard to tell from the photo angle in your second pic but the fan shroud looks high, a pic from the side will show the crossmember clearance better. Wayne used a 3.0 so it should be identical for your car ... if I recall, the clearance was an inch or so during the separation. I assume you have the shift coupler disconnected.

Your engine looks original so I highly doubt the studs are non-standard. When you get it out, can you do me a favor and take pics all around ? I have an 80 as well but would like to have close up pics of the original setup. Thanks !

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...set1/pic19.JPG

Got it! Main issue was to keep jacking rear end as Steve suggested to help gain fan clearance. Plus some patience which I lack at times. Thanks for all the suggestions now the real fun starts. Broken head stud:(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546817894.jpg

congrads, very cool accomplishment

-I have same issue with broken head studs, I have my engine totally broken down now, fun project, exercise patience and post questions here and you will have an enjoyable time

oh and life is so much easier with an engine stand

Way to go!

Nicely done.

More pics please !

I am out of town until weekend and will post some more pics when I return. Anything in particular you are looking for?

Just pics of the routing at the back of the engine and on the two sides will do. Thanks.

Pmax,
Apologies for taking so long to post. hopefully these are still helpful

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1547937898.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1547937898.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1547937898.jpg

That's a mighty clean engine!

Having pictures of everything looks like a great idea for a first time disassembly.

Having removed engines both with and without the transmission attached, my take is that when time is critical (like getting an engine ready for a race), and you have the experience, pulling just the engine is the way to go - the main time and PITA saver is the CV joints. Lining up the transmission to chassis bolt holes can also be a pain, and leads to cross threading if you are rushed.

But in my case this is for a race motor where lots of little things have been done to make unplugging the engine easier and quicker, and the rear valance is Dzused on. I even cut out the center of the rearmost cross member so the fan housing will fit through, with the center then bolted back into place. Plenty of room to get the engine in and up or down and out, clearing the studs for connecting to the transmission. Shops go one better so that the whole cross member unbolts, and the engine comes out straight backward all the way.

For me, the major problem is with getting the throwout fork right on the TOB on reinstallation. With just an engine reinstall, sometimes I get things right off the bat, and by feel. Other times it takes numerous trials.

With everything on the garage floor you have a pretty good view - a great one if you leave the starter off - as you mate the engine and transmission. Nowadays, borescopes adequate for the purpose are cheap, and help to get this right first try.

If you have a lift, I imagine pulling both together is an easy decision - stand up to deal with CVs, the ability to use various cradles or articulated attachments to deal with the angled part, and none of the tricky balancing a guy like me faces lying under his car doing this alone, whether just the engine or both.

Pulling both deals with the need to prop up the transmission. On my car with solid mounts, I had a way of using a piece of chain to hold the transmission. Then, by accident, I found that the mounts alone would hold it! Either way, you can push the car around. With the transmission out you need to find a way to hold the axles up (unless you removed those, too) if you want to move the car.

Two years ago I pulled just the engine to replace a broken head stud so I could make a race. Because of the particular stud, I thought I had a chance of getting the broken part out without taking the head off. I think it was the lower right #1. A little grinding on some non-essential aluminum allowed me to weld a tube over the broken part and extract it, though not without a fight. Got it all back together and to the event in time.

But the usual DIY one reads about here doesn't fit that paradigm. I think it is good for anyone who aspires to DIY to know you can pull just the engine if you see a reason to do it that way. But to understand that pulling both, as the factory manual says to do, is usually best.

In this case, with the engine already out, simple to pull the transmission when it is time to put the engine back in.

Thanks, that's one clean engine.

If I may, a close up pic of the wiring tangle behind the 2 hoses in the red oval would be great, it's good to know what the "factory routing" of the CIS lines is. I was also wondering if the tie in the green oval is factory....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1548289717.jpg

That breather hose looks like it performs better than the soon soggy factory hose.

PMax,
Apologies I haven't been keeping up with the forum. Look at these two pics and let me know if they help. If not I can pull the oil hoses to side and take some more - the CIF is off now but in one piece. The tie is not factory it is just a regular tie wrap that must have been put there previously.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1549679164.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1549679164.jpg

Thanks !

I'm good.

Just noticed the decel valve , lower "flying saucer" shaped gizmo, should have a plug on the nipple. It's a common mod.