3.2 top end so while I'm there time to upgrade
 

Recently purchased a 1986 3.2 which will need a top end rebuild.
What have you guys done for a hot street 3.2 ?
Like to keep the low end pull vs top end power.
I won't be tracking the car but maybe an autox here and there.

Going to use PMO EFI induction with coil on plug ignition.
Still need to do a little research on that part.
Looking at both Clewett Engineering and the Rasant Products kit.

TIA,

Luke

3.2 top end
 

Glad to see this worked out! Watching this ...:D

I'm far from an expert on this, but I recently completed a top end on my 3.2 (heads rebuilt, new head studs (and intake and exhaust studs) and new rings on nikasil P&C's.

Just my opinion, but if I were to increase the performance of the engine (cams, induction, etc) I would want to address the weak link, rod bolts. This means opening the bottom end = slippery slope.

I 'think' (hope) that the stock rod bolts can handle stock performance...

1988 3.2

needed top end

wouldnt pass CA smog

after shop pulled it apart to do top end I decided, heck while we are this far whats another 6k to do the bottom end

at 155k mi I said go for it

All stock but polished and balanced and wong chip with no cats and sports muffler couldnt be happier

I'd go for a stockish rebuild with 964 cams with a Steve Wong chip and use the money saved to build a short ratio gearbox with all the bells and whistles.

If you haven't already bought the PMO, maybe have a chat to Al Kosmal; he sells a nice alternative from RHD here in Australia.
https://racehead.com.au/product/porsche-bolt-on-6-cylinder-itb-kit-boxer-engines/

Luke, I don’t see putting more power on the used bottom end is the way to go.
Once you get a valve job done, without new rings, I generally get 175/185# on compression
Start banging it harder is looking for problems in the bottom.
Even on a top end I open the case to see what is there after 40 years to let the owner know what he owns, change seals, intermediate shaft bearings, chain rails.
I consider the appearance of the mains indicative of the rod bearings so I don’t open the rods unless the mains are full of dirt scratches.
Bruce

Dont think there is a lot of power left on the table by Porsche. Could increase displacement or CR slightly. I think rod bolts can be upgraded without splitting the case. I think compression will be increased slightly as a result of the top end rebuild and machining of the head mating surfaces.

Chris
89 Carrera

I dont see the need for ITBs to be honest the factory plenum will support plenty of air flow.
Maybe bump compression, go to a 964 cam and twin plug if you want to get real wild then run it on a mega squirt 3 or aem infinity. keep in mind going to a new ecu will require extensive tuning time to iron out all the little drive-ability bugs to get it to work as smoothly as your car does now.

FWIW, replacing rod bearings and rebuilding rods isn’t a “bottom end” project. Those parts are accessible with the crankcase intact. Porsche engines are blessed with 8 main bearings supporting the crank with scant history of lower end failures with later Al engines. To compare, a Chevy V8 has four. If oil changes were performed on schedule and no internal grenading, I’d rebuild the rods, replace the rod bearings and upgrade the rod bolts, but it’s your call.

S

I received the 3.2 and I'll post a few pics later today.
Looks pretty good from taking a quick look at it.
Need to get it mounted on the engine stand and remove a few items.

The more I thought about it I'll just split the case and build it all up.
I'll upgrade the rod bolts too. I knew that they where a weak point in the 3.2.

Any recommendations on a brand other then ARP ?
Also I know there was a rash of bad bearings being sold when I was redoing my brothers 3.0 .
Any good sources or brands to look for. It's been almost 3 years now since I did the 3.0 .

TIA,

Luke

Rod bearings from Auto Associates.

Pretty sure my brother purchased his 3.0 bearing set at Auto Associates as well.
I'll have to call them in the morning. So, I'm gonna tear the 3.2 all the way down.
The more I thought about it I think I'd like to go with a set of slip in 3.4 MMS p/c's.

These here : https://lnengineering.com/products/mahle-motorsports-c-p-sets/porsche-911-carrera-32l-to-34l-1984-1989-motronic-inj-mahle-cylinder-and-piston-set.html

I won't be using the Motronic efi but instead PMO Efi kit from Rasant products.
Anyone here running these p/c's ? Also which cams? Mainly street driven car with some autox and maybe one track day a year.

I plan on upgrading the rod bolts and head studs while I'm there..

Pics..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1587477234.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1587477255.jpg

I ordered most of the parts and waiting for them to get delivered.
Started tearing down the 3.2. Off came the rockers, cams, housings, cam towers, heads, & p/c's.
I'll remove the head studs today then split the case.

Question on the oil pump. Should I have the org 3.2 pump gone through or buy a new updated one?
What's a good replacement pump that does not require the engine case to be modified for fitment ?

Some pics...





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588340001.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588340028.jpg
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Luke, if the cylinders are alucil you might desire to open to 3.4.
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

The current cylinders are Nikasil and look pretty nice. Per the p/o they where replaced by the dealer about 50 thousand miles ago. Old set had a lot of blow by so they were replace with these. I have a set of MMS 3.4 p/c's on order. Should be here next week.

Well time to update this..

I'm looking for some cams to make this 3.2 to now 3.4 work. I have the PMO Efi 46, cop kit from Rasant Products. Any one have a similar setup that can give me a real world feedback ?
Car will be mainly street driven with some autox/track days.

I reached out to John about what he thinks and says the 993SS cams.
Anyone running these or other cams that want to share some info?

Thanks,
Luke

What about a 964 oil pump?

I have 993SS in a 3,6 and they are kind of boring. Also have Mod S in a 2,7 that's much more fun. Since you have ITB induction you could go with a more aggressive cam like DC40 (mod S), DC44 or DC60.

john

I'm looking into which oil pump to use. I may just have my 3.2 pump sent out to GYM for a mod and reuse it. I've heard the 964 pumps are made of mag which have had issues unless they are now made in aluminum ? The cams are where I'm stuck on. I'd like a good street torque cam but with some top end too

Would the 964 oil pump part # 964-107-011-14-OEM be the upgrade to the 3.2 oil pump?
I know I would also need the shorter oil pump drive shaft.

TIA.

Luke, if you’re going to spend the money, get a turbo pump.
Carrera pump, include cam line restrictors even with mods to the pump
I would rather replace a cam than a crank
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I already have the cam housing oil restriction fittings. So I should just get my 3.2 pump
redone by GYM and call it done. Anyone else with any words of wisdom?

TIA

I have a GYM pump in my 3.2ss (with cam line restrictors). Night and day difference in oil pressure from the stock SC pump. Even on a hot day after kicking the S*** out of it, it's putting out 1.5 bar at idle.

After communicating with Glenn Yee, I decided to send him my oil pump for modification.

Now it's a waiting game until my parts return.

I have the 964 cams in my '87 3.2 with a custom Steve Wong chip and large tube custom SS heat exchangers and muffler. It runs and sounds great. Engine built by flat6pac BTW.

The parts and machine shop items are finally rolling in. I received the case and cam towers back from the machine shop. I'm still waiting on the crank, rods, and heads. I received the modified GYM 3.2 oil pump back so that's ready to go. Most of the lower end bearings are in but still waiting on the #8 bearing. All bearings are Calico coated. The Rasant PMO EFI induction stuff is in and ready to go. New Mahle MS 3.4 p/c's are in and ready to go. All new timing gears, chains, and associated parts are on hand.
I still need to figure out the cams and get the rockers out to be refinished.

Stay tuned for updates and pics as I get started on re assembly.

I got the engine case, crank/rods, p/c's, & heads back from the machine shop. I was inspecting the case and noticed that the parting surfaces did not get as clean as I thought they would.
I was thinking the case wash would've taken the sealant off but guess not.
So what are my options without having to remove all of the outer perimeter studs to clean the surface ?
I did that with my other builds but it's a real pain in the ass. I also had to replace several studs that were damaged upon removing. I have a soda blaster here. Soda blast an option or do not try it?
I would hate to remove all the studs but maybe my only choice. Anyone done it differently ?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1603045318.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1603045384.jpg

I split my 3.2 case awhile ago. When I was doing that I noticed that the outer perimeter M8 lock nuts where not the nylon style but instead all metal oval lock nuts. So my question is this, was there a reason Porsche went this route vs the the nylon? I have the nylon style on hand but would need to buy the oval lock nuts for assembly. Anyone know?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1603561507.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1603561527.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1603561537.jpg

Luke, those are “prevailing torque” nuts. I would not reuse them, I have a bag on the shelf and they eat the threads.
I continue to use the nylons as they were good for 40 years good tomorrow t.
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the info. I kinda figured on reusing the nylon style so nylon it is.
I wasn't sure if there was a reason behind the use of the oval lock nuts.
As you can see I removed the case studs. Not that I wanted to but had to.
I tested a few and they came right off. Guess the case cleaning may have compromised the loctite.
So now they are all coming off and re install with new loctite.
Now to prep and clean the case.

Good morning Luke M

Nylon lock nuts can only be used 5 times and all metal lock nuts are designed to be reused 3 times. After that the prevailing torque performance degrades to the point that they don't provide adequate resistance to loosening.

Which of the calico coatings did you use on your bearings? Did you apply it?

Thanks

David

Hi David,

I'm gonna use new Nylon nuts which I already have on hand. As for the bearings they are coated by Calico.
Got the rod bearings from Automotive Associates. Mains and Inter shaft bearings also coated by Calico from PMS. The #8 coated bearing from Pelican Parts. I had to go to a few places cause I couldn't get all the bearing from one source at the time of purchase.

Well to a standstill I have come. In cleaning and prepping the case for assembly I have found that 3 out of the 6 piston oil squirters are not working. I tried for several days of cleaning, blowing air through the chambers, more soaking of different solvents to no help. So, I reached out to a member which makes rebuildable piston squirters. Anyone have a clue which is the best way to remove the old ones?
I have to remove the old ones to measure the bore before I order a full set.

TIA,

Piston Squirter Removal
 

Read this thread, I believe it covers everything on removal of the squirters.

*&%$# piston squirters

what material data is this based off of? Interested, please post. For the very few dollars in using new nuts (nyloc or stover style) it would seem pointless to reuse. To us they are one time use, much like a torque to yield bolt. Even with data that says they can be used "X" number of times, they would still go in the bin.

Cheers

Thanks for the removal and install threads. I'm working on removing all of the oil squirters. Keep you guys posted on how it works out.

I got all the oil squirters out of the case. Had a little issue with one but after I switched to the wood screw method the rest came right out. I first drilled a 1/8'' pilot hole then installed the wood screw ( see pics ) a few taps from the slide hammer and out they came. No heat, no fuss, just came right out. The first attempt was the factory method to drill and tap with a 5 mm tap. That did nothing but pull the threads right out on the first tap from the slide hammer. So for others who see this don't waste your time skip right to the wood screw method it works and works well without damaging the case. Now I'm just waiting on the new squirters from Taormina Racing to show up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1605908252.jpg
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nice work.. looking forward to seeing more updates