1980 SC Engine Reinstallation

[subseamark]

it's been oner a year since I removed my engine and now, finally, I'm almost ready to put it back in. For better or worse, I just removed the engine and not the transmission.

I understand clutch fork has to be set in the groove on the throw out bearing.

This is my first time removing and rebuilding. Any tips or words of wisdom putting engine back in?

Thanks

[colingreene]

Pull the trans and put it on the engine then put the whole thing back in.

[Dr J]

^^^
Strongly agree to pull the transmission and remount the engine/trans as a unit. Aligning the engine with a transmission that has not been removed proved impossible to me though some have claimed success.

[subseamark]

Thanks Colin and Dr J, I was hoping to avoid pulling transmission too but seems there are a lot of folks that agree pulling engine and transmission is the way to go.

Has anyone on the forum had success mating the engine to the transmission while in car?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by subseamark

Thanks Colin and Dr J, I was hoping to avoid pulling transmission too but seems there are a lot of folks that agree pulling engine and transmission is the way to go.

Has anyone on the forum had success mating the engine to the transmission while in car?

There are people who claimed to have done the removal/installation of the engine leaving the transmission in place. Even a very well known member of this forum from PNW promotes this procedure. I have a long list of names from all over the country and abroad who are DIYers, Porsche shop owners and mechanics, and a few well known names in the business who had done hundreds engine rebuilds that I interviewed to find out their preferred methods.

My question was: I have a 911 SC that needs a new clutch and like to drop the motor to do the work myself. What procedure would you recommend?
a). Remove the motor and transmission together? Or
b). Remove the motor and leave the transmission in place?

Out of the 65 names:
1 claimed he does (a) & (b).
64 suggested (a).

My follow up question was:Why would someone remove the engine alone and leave the transmission?

Some of the memorable replies I got:
........for bragging right.
........we are paid a flat rate fee so we will do the job the quickest and convenient way to finish the job with safety in mind.
........you can remove the engine only but not recommended for this car.
........big mistake and you will never do it again.
........you see that engine cradle sitting there? That is a very expensive equipment only a big dealership could afford that we use to drop the motor and transmission together.
........let someone do it and wait.
........probably thinks he could same time.
........etc.

The mystery continues.......

Tony

[mikesarge]

Pull the trans. It’s only the CVs, trans mounts, speedo, and body ground. You likely pulled the shift coupler already to get the angle necessary to get the engine out in the first place. Trust me, It’ll make reassembly very quick.

I’m relatively new at this and my first engine/trans reinstall took me just under two hours working very slowly and carefully. Last time I was just under an hour. All that to say, you’re not saving yourself any time by leaving the transaxle in the car, and with the extra maneuvering to get the clutch release fork, bell housing nuts, and even the reverse light wires back on, I’m sure it’ll be faster with everything going into the car in one piece.

[MichaelSJackson]

I've done the engine by itself 4 or 5 times. One time I couldn't get it to go that last 1/2 inch. Very frustrating. Ended up dropping the trans and putting them together on the ground. Turned out the solenoid hadn't retracted the starter gear. The ring gear kept banging into it.

Just do the engine. You can always drop the trans later, if you need to. (I hated playing with the CV joints.)

If you're just doing the engine, the center of gravity is located at the oil drain. When they were together I found the CG just ahead of the drain. (I'd have thought it much farther forward.)

[Eagledriver]

Just put it back in the same way you took it out. It’s much easier to push the engine against a fixed target than to go through the time and effort to remove transmission.

Keep the shift fork out of the way until you get to the last inch or so. Then turn the fork so that it touches the edge of the throughout bearing. Push the engine in further a little at a time and keep checking the fork and keeping it against the throughout bearing. You can see the bearing through the gap at the top of the bell housing. Once you have the fork engaged you just need to push the engine home. If it won’t move, you might need to rotate the input shaft or the crankshaft to get the splines lined up. You have to keep the angle of the engine and transmission matched so they mate without binding. You can see how you are doing by watching from the top or sides you jiggle the engine up and down as you move it into place.

After you’re done. Please report back here so others will know how easy it is.

-Andy

[Trackrash]

I'd say go for it with the trans still in place, but get a couple of friends to help. I'm not sure how you would manage by yourself.

['78 SC]

Mating the engine and transmission is definitely easier with both out in the open, but you should at least try installing engine only. I did it once (versus 6 times removing both as a unit).

You absolutely need a good way to control the height and tilt of the engine. I have a mid-rise lift and used this hydraulic table and blocking under the front to maneuver the engine:




The angle of the engine and transmission have to match exactly for the long engine studs to feed through the holes in the bell housing. I found my transmission did not sag enough (but I have race mounts that are stiffer than stock) so I had to loosen the mount slightly to get the transmission to angle down more. John Walker recommends a digital level (or phone app) to check both angles.



I was operating alone, so I used a ratchet strap to draw the engine forward gradually as I raised the table. Watch the engagement of the studs closely - make sure they are all aligned and feeding straight into their holes. Adjust the angle and height of engine as required.

Some of the studs are longer so they will engage first. You will need a mirror or fiber optic camera to watch the clutch fork engage the clutch release bearing. Be absolutely certain the fork correctly rides in the bearing.

Good luck

[colingreene]

i just feel like trying to put the engine on the transmission in that way is asking to damage the body or trans or risking potentially dropping the engine.

[VFR750]

Just got done with a transmission swap (rebuild) and a second pull to fix a loose Slider fork bolt.

Both times pulled engine and transmission as one unit.

This was my 7th and 8th time doing it this way.

Can’t even imagine doing an engine install with the tranny installed in the car.

I’d pull the transmission out and reattach it while the engine is out. Much easier to properly torque the upper barrel nut. And getting the throw out bearing aligned with the fork.

[flat6pilot]

I didn't realize it was that difficult doing it separately.

I've only removed twice and reinstalled once. (I still have the engine/trans out right now).

First time with floor jacks, and regular jack stands.
Second time with the Quickjacks.

The first time around I removed the engine only, leaving transmission in place. Wasn't all that difficult. Installation wasn't horrible, but I'll admit getting the fork to line up was a PITA. You have to look through the bellhousing to get the fork at the right angle to 'mate' to the release bearing.

The second time I removed the engine by itself again. Not hard. However, this time around I will be mating the trans to the engine before installing.

[subseamark]

Thanks everyone for your views and thoughts. It's taken me a while, but I'm going to try and mate the engine to the transmission tomorrow. As some have suggeted, if that doesn't work out, I can always re-remove engine and then transmission and re-install as unit. Also, as recommended, I bought a cheap borescope off internet to view the fork/bearing alignment. I'll let you know how it goes. Again, thanks to all for insight.

['78 SC]

Looks like you're using an ATC jack. Is that going to be stable when the engine is raised up to the level of the chassis mounts?

Do you have a strategy for controlling the tilt of the engine? Once you match the angle of the engine to the transmission you will have to maintain that while feeding the engine studs into the holes on the transmission. That will require moving up and forward simultaneously.

You'll need to raise the jack, roll forward, watch the studs and steady the engine simultaneously - do you have help?

Good luck.

[flat6pilot]

Like it was mentioned above, try to have a buddy around to assist. I didn't mention it, but I had someone with me watching where the engine was going while I controlled the jack. Things could get unsteady pretty quick. Remember, safety 3rd! Well... 1st in this case...that bisch is heavy. Good luck!

[CBRacerX]

It is doable just fine with the floor jack if the engine and trans are together, but engine alone and not using a hydralic lift table is going to be frustrating at best. Pull the trans - it is only 10 minutes with the engine out. Put them together in the light of day. Then reinstall. It will take less time in the end. I’ve done this at least 100 times and that is the way to go about it if you value your time and sanity.

[subseamark]

Gents,
Today was a good day. Was able to mate the engine to the tranny with the help of my son guiding me as it went together. Thanks Steve for your guidance on engine tilt as that made all the difference. And thanks to Walt for the cheap wifi endoscope recommendation to ensure fork/bearing alignment - worked like a charm.

After all said and done, glad I did it this way as pulling the transmission and reinstalling seems like it would have taken me much longer. Although I've never pulled them together as a comparison, I have to agree with Kyle, it didn't seem that difficult doing it separatly, especially after the forum tips.

[subseamark]

['78 SC]

Nice job, Mark. Congratulations.

Now drop/reinstall them as a unit to compare and report back to us.