Is this a bad cylinder gasket?

himizoli · 02-21-2021, 10:47 AM

Hi

I have a 2.4T engine with 2.2S pistons.
There was some oil leaking and I decided to rebuild the engine.
I see the top of the cylinder inner ring is really sooty and the cylinder head sealing ring is totally broke ( the spring is coming out hundreds of pieces)

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Victor-Reintz make some pretty low quality CE rings and in the 84mm size they were too thick. This additional thickness prevented a proper head to cylinder seal.
The cylinder actually seals metal to metal with the gasket more of an oil seal than a compression.
If the cylinder to head is not metal to metal, the head stability will be compromised.

himizoli · 06:39 AM

Thank you for help Henry!
Is there any way to measure the head and the cylinder seat together correctly? maybe the start thickness of the CE ring?
Other question:
The engine is the follow
2.4T engine with 2.2S pistons and E camshaft. The heads are 35/33mm opened.
The car is really weak under 4000RPM, can it be the too big intake ports?
The MFI throttle underside is also opened to 35mm.

himizoli · 02-23-2021, 07:28 AM

I tiered to measure the gap between the cylinder and the head

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by himizoli

Thank you for help Henry!
Is there any way to measure the head and the cylinder seat together correctly? maybe the start thickness of the CE ring?
Other question:
The engine is the follow
2.4T engine with 2.2S pistons and E camshaft. The heads are 35/33mm opened.
The car is really weak under 4000RPM, can it be the too big intake ports?
The MFI throttle underside is also opened to 35mm.

Your issue could be a number of things.
Too little cam for the compression is one thought.
MFI tuning (generally too rich) is another.
Ignition timing still another. I find that these little MFI engines love timing. Although the higher compression (9.8:1 ?) will challenge the ability to run more advance, we find they really like 34-36 degrees better than the suggested 30 degrees you might imagine for the "S" pistons.
Higher compression will want to detonate but the (always) rich mixture of the MFI
mitigate some of the compression effect.

stownsen914 · 02-23-2021, 07:45 AM

Is that taken by torqueing down the head? It looks like .004" (.1 mm)? That's a big gap.

himizoli · 02-24-2021, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stownsen914

Is that taken by torqueing down the head? It looks like .004" (.1 mm)? That's a big gap.

Yes the head was torqued down in 2 steps 10Nm and 32Nm
This was a Victor Reinz product, now I tiered to get Elring

Richey · 02-24-2021, 07:03 PM

Follow Henry's advice , do not use the V. R. CE rings , buy Porsche rings from the dealer .

Mr Beau · 03-01-2021, 08:43 AM

The 'spring' in the VR gasket is too strong and prevents the ring from squishing down as intended? I have VR sealing rings in my 2.4 and just finished timing the cams. I'm not excited about tearing it down if I don't have to...

Richey · 03-01-2021, 06:32 PM

I hate to tell you , but I would if it was me . V. R,'s do not fully compress in my experience . The combustion gases and heat will soon deteriorate the C E rings because of the space remaining between the cylinder head and cylinder .

kwikt 911 · kwikt 911's Garage

What cylinders are you using. Reason I ask is because there is a set 84mm aftermarket that had a shallow head gasket groove. When tightening the head it would crush the gasket to pieces then head would leak.

Mr Beau · 03-02-2021, 10:51 PM

OEM heads and barrels from 1973.

gssereik · gssereik's Garage

QUESTION - Is the problem with Victor-Reintz CE rings unique to 84mm size? Or might Victor-Reintz CE rings also be problematic for 95mm 3.0 SC heads too? I am currently building the engine on my 83 SC targa and checked my box of new parts and sure enough... The CE rings are made by Victor-Reintz !! thanks, George

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssereik

QUESTION - Is the problem with Victor-Reintz CE rings unique to 84mm size? Or might Victor-Reintz CE rings also be problematic for 95mm 3.0 SC heads too? I am currently building the engine on my 83 SC targa and checked my box of new parts and sure enough... The CE rings are made by Victor-Reintz !! thanks, George

The last set of Victor-Reintz CE rings I got for an SC were so poorly made that I stopped the engine I was working on to source another set. Two day delay but worth every minute.
The new set came from Wrightwood Racing.

Mr Beau · 03-15-2021, 10:25 PM

Anyone have pics of what to look out for?

himizoli · 03-16-2021, 09:30 AM

New CE rings arrived today.
Those are non VR brand.... look better. The dealer didnot told me the brand...

ahh911 · 03-16-2021, 10:12 AM

Henry, I have several VR CE rings for a 911 SC left over as I received an extra set. I looked them over somewhat carefully and saw nothing alarming when I installed them (2020), but since I've never seen a new non-VR version, what might I be looking for? I can take pictures of the VR rings.
Phil