Case-Savers

Biff · 04-19-2003, 09:00 PM

Where can I source good quality case-savers? I have a bridgeport and I will install myself. Thanks in advance!

biggtbiggt · biggtbiggt's Garage

I got mine from conemac
818-340-5855

Britwrench · 04-20-2003, 07:19 PM

If you have a 2.7 or mag case engine you will also need to align bore or hone the main bearing bore and intermediate shaft bore, machine the deck height and machine the cylinder spigots round again. Installing case savers stresses the case.

jim72911t · 04-21-2003, 05:38 PM

Ok, maybe I'm mistaken on this, but aren't case savers recomended by Wayne becase they DONT stress the case, while Timecerts do? I've been doing some research on this, and have discovered that case savers are installed using a simple bolt and locknut, while Timecerts are installed using an STI (cold-forming) tap. As a machinist with 10+ years of experience, I understand how using a cold forming tap for instalation of Timecerts could slightly deform the case, since a slight press-fit is needed for instalation.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from having the proper machine work done on their case; I'm just trying to clarify some things for myself. The job of installing case savers seems very straightforward (to me, a machinist), and have installed them before in manufacturing tooling, just never on a Porsche motor. When I talked to the local Porsche machinist/engine builder (he's seen my work), he assured me it's not that big of a deal once everything is set up properly. I plan on having the line bore done by a shop with the proper (expensive) tooling; everything else I plan to do myself.

Am I wrong, crazy, or both?

Jim
'72 911T

jk911 · 04-21-2003, 06:32 PM

Wanyne, why are they not sold at pelican ? or have I just missed them ?

88911coupe · 04-22-2003, 07:52 AM

Not sure where to ask this but this thread seems as good as anyplace. Are ALL 2.7 cases the magnesium? I was checking out Wayne's recommended engines and noticed his suggestions on 2.7 cases and how to get RS spec engines out of them. I guess I am also asking is there only one form of 2.7 case or is he referring to some special 2.7 case in the book?
sorry if this is slightly OT for the thread.
TIA

snowman · 04-22-2003, 08:54 PM

I know how Timeserts are installed, I just did some on my case myself. Whats the difference with case savers?

snowman · 04-22-2003, 08:59 PM

PS

The only thing I think is real important is that the case be chucked up on the cylinder lands so any work is square with them.

Biff · 04-23-2003, 06:37 PM

Back to the original message request, where can I locate casesavers or are they found at any nuts and bolts wholesaler??

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Try Walt at Competition Engineering. In a similar theme to another thread in this forum, the installation of these case-savers is *not* something for the home mechanic to perform, and should be left to a good machine shop. If you happen to have a BridgePort in your garage, then you are among the lucky .5% who can do the job themselves. We don't sell them because you need professional tools to install them. I also don't have a good supplier just yet - I'll have to get with Walt on where he gets his...

As for the 2.7 case question, there was only one 2.7 production case (as far as I know), and it was the same that the 911RS used. The RS engines do suffer from the same problems as the regular 2.7s, but you don't hear about it as much, and they also didn't suffer as quickly because they ran a little bit cooler than the thermal reator cars.

-Wayne

snowman · 04-25-2003, 04:43 PM

Contact "Thread Kits Company" Phone (800) 372-4477 In Torrance CA They carry Time-Serts and others. Kits including tools needed for installation are typically in the $40 to $50 range.

snowman · 04-26-2003, 07:35 PM

Another PS

You don't need a mill to install these, just a good drill press that can be used to chuck up the case square to the cylinder.

The other "trick" is to use a block to start the tap for the insert. A block is simply a block of metal about 3/4 of an inch thick with a hole, slightly larger than the tap drilled in it. THe hole must have been drilled with a drill press or a mill so that you know for sure that they are "square". Use the block to guide the tap when you start it and everything will be square. The block might be a piece of metal 3/4 inch thick by 2 inches wide by 8 inches long. Just lay it over the hole to be tapped and insert the tap. Start tapping. This is REALLY imprortant. If you don't have square holes and taps you will not get the studs to align with the matching holes in the case and it won't go togather.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Installing your own case-savers is not something I would recommend (or something that I would do myself), even if you had a good drill press. To take a hand drill to your case would be quite risky. For starters, the case is so often warped, that you cannot find a good square surface on the top.

-Wayne

snowman · 04-27-2003, 04:40 PM

NEVER use a hand drill or you WILL ruin your case.

jgparker · jgparker's Garage

The 2.7 I acquired last year had timeserts done by hand in the previous rebuild, and they were all over the place. I can't imagine how they got the P/C or the heads on, since I could barely get them off. My favorite machine shop replaced them with case savers, and they are dead straight now. I generally like to do everything myself, but this is one thing to leave to a proper machine shop.

biggtbiggt · biggtbiggt's Garage

I installed my own case savers and they turned out excellent! I found that there was a centering hole bored into the bottom of the original stud hole. Not sure if it was from the factory or if it was put there when they tapped for the helicoils. I used this to centre the mill and bored the holes to the proper depth. I then used a drill press to centre the tap that was used to thread the holes. If I was to do it again I would tap holes at the same time as I milled holes. This would save setting up in drill press later!

snowman · 05-04-2003, 09:57 PM

Re thinking what I said about doing this by hand without a drill press or mill, it can be done. Re reading what Bruce Andersons book, Porsche 911 Performance Handbook had to say on this subject you can do it. You must also use the block I mentioned for tapping to drill with. A second hole in the block, slightly larger than the drill, drilled on a mill so it is truely square, can be used a guide for the hand drill. Some skill is needed for this operation ( that means you have done a number of things exactly like this). Not recommended, but quite possible.

Bottom line, ANYONE who is familiar with the most basic tennants of machine work can successfully do this task. DO NOT LIE TO YOURSELF about your ability though, you really do need to have had the basics to do this.

snowman · 05-04-2003, 10:04 PM

PS again,

Wayne,
You do not have much faith in your ability to machine anything, typical of an engineer wihtout much hands on. Don't let your lack of confidence affect what others, who KNOW what they can do, by experience, get in the way of what can or cannot be done. IF you have not tried it yourself, with the proper guideance of course, do not say someone else cannot do it.