Permatex Anaerobic doesn’t seem to be curing. Is this a problem??

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by bigo5552000

Do you think torquing everything to spec would just squeeze any excess resulting in the proper clearances?


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Maybe, but I've seen excess 574 create all kinds of tolerance issues.

[bigo5552000]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Maybe, but I've seen excess 574 create all kinds of tolerance issues.

Ok.. it’s not worth the risk! I’ll pull it apart clean everything and redo it with less sealant!

I’ll try and document what it looks like and if everyone thinks it was needed once we see it! Regardless it’s worth the piece of mind.


Should I order some 574 or continue with the anaerobic Permatex?

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[Henry Schmidt]

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/284737-complete-engine-sealant-thread.html

[bigo5552000]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/284737-complete-engine-sealant-thread.html

Excellent thanks! Is 50ml enough?


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[gled49]

The issue with anaerobic glue is if an air gap isn’t maintained, and as thick as you applied it, it’s plausible a gap wasn’t maintained. When the air is gone, it sets super fast, I’ve disassembled engines that were fresh and found .020” hard as cement glue build up between case 1/2’s, heads and cam housing. It’s worth considering a tear down now.

[Walt Fricke]

Like about everyone has said, that red stuff is laid on way way too thick. With 574 you lay a thin bead, then take a mini-paint roller to it (if you wish - not essential) to cover where it counts, and assemble. This produces very little squeeze out, which you can remove with a rag (again, not essential but why have stuff which will eventually harden with heat, serve no purpose, and just maybe break off and get somewhere it shouldn't, like what squeezes out into the port).

What I have never understood is why so many seem to apply sealant to the middle between the intake and exhaust. Nothing to seal there. Oil has no access to that area. 18 studs are more than enough to keep the cam from lifting the cam carrier up off the heads.

[bigo5552000]

Ok! So I have remove my one side! There is ALOT of squeeze out but it does seem to be sealed well and in a very thin layer.





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[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by bigo5552000

Ok! So I have remove my one side! There is ALOT of squeeze out but it does seem to be sealed well and in a very thin layer.





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Why would you spend all the time and money assembling a motor and then disregard something as simple as using the tried and true methods of sealing your motor. Yeh it’s not rocket science but you’d be foolish not to listen to people like Henry and others who have assembled 100’s of motors.

[bigo5552000]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

Why would you spend all the time and money assembling a motor and then disregard something as simple as using the tried and true methods of sealing your motor. Yeh it’s not rocket science but you’d be foolish not to listen to people like Henry and others who have assembled 100’s of motors.

Firstly, I sealed this before I began this thread. So any knowledge gained from this thread and resulting actions would be reactive. I also followed the procedure in my reference material. The wording for the amount of sealant used is VERY subjective. So I assumed better to be on the thick side.

After creating this thread and learning from others. I removed everything cleaned it and I am reinstalling with 574.

So I am not sure how I am being foolish by not listening too them? Seems to me I am taking their advice.

Now did I ask questions? Sure who wouldn’t!

Also, I posted what it looked like in there so others would know in the future.

Thanks all for the help!


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[Henry Schmidt]

Building these stone aged air-cooled engines is a challenge. Getting them to seal was even a challenge for the factory using experienced assemblers and new parts. Even with new parts, about 4% of the 964 engine leaked during break-in on the dyno.
There is no "right" way, there is just experience mixed with a little good luck. You're doing the right thing, you're asking questions. Now you're challenge is to weed through the noise to find the "right" advice.
Good luck with your project, we'll be here if you have other questions.

[bigo5552000]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Build these stone aged air-cooled engine is a challenge. Getting them to seal was even a challenge for the factory using experienced assemblers and new parts. Even with new parts, about 4% of the 964 engine leaked during break-in on the dyno.
There is no "right" way, there is just experience mixed with a little good luck. You're doing the right thing, you're asking questions. Now you're challenge is to weed through the noise to find the "right" advice.
Good luck with your project, we'll be here if you have other questions.

Wow! 4% fall out in the factory for leaking…that’s nuts! My first engineering job was an industrial engineering job for Navistar Diesel and quality would be murdered for that kind of fallout! :-/

My 574 came in the mail yesterday. It’s crazy how different the viscosity is when compared to the Permatex. I cleaned everything up and added a MUCH smaller amount of sealant and torqued everything back down.

Time to start timing this thing!

Thanks all for the help!

[Jeff Alton]

Keep up posted on the progress!

Cheers

[bigo5552000]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Keep up posted on the progress!

Cheers

Lots of updates in the build thread!


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[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by gled49

The issue with anaerobic glue is if an air gap isn’t maintained, and as thick as you applied it, it’s plausible a gap wasn’t maintained. When the air is gone, it sets super fast, I’ve disassembled engines that were fresh and found .020” hard as cement glue build up between case 1/2’s, heads and cam housing. It’s worth considering a tear down now.

That's why I'm done with that stuff.

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Like about everyone has said, that red stuff is laid on way way too thick. With 574 you lay a thin bead, then take a mini-paint roller to it (if you wish - not essential) to cover where it counts, and assemble. This produces very little squeeze out, which you can remove with a rag (again, not essential but why have stuff which will eventually harden with heat, serve no purpose, and just maybe break off and get somewhere it shouldn't, like what squeezes out into the port).

What I have never understood is why so many seem to apply sealant to the middle between the intake and exhaust. Nothing to seal there. Oil has no access to that area. 18 studs are more than enough to keep the cam from lifting the cam carrier up off the heads.

Why? Because there is a book out there that says you should....

Cheers

[Walt Fricke]

Yes, but not the factory manual. It says lightly coat the sealing surfaces (I looked it up).

On the other hand, this kind of thing mainly matters to guys with race engines who do their own work. Those come apart and get put back together more often, so simplifying things is useful. Same for shops (which is where I first saw the simpler and slightly quicker method).

There at least is a rationale for coating the case parts which extend out to the bearings. None here I can conjure up. In the long run, just a minor thing for guys who want to know why, not just how.

[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Yes, but not the factory manual. It says lightly coat the sealing surfaces (I looked it up).

On the other hand, this kind of thing mainly matters to guys with race engines who do their own work. Those come apart and get put back together more often, so simplifying things is useful. Same for shops (which is where I first saw the simpler and slightly quicker method).

There at least is a rationale for coating the case parts which extend out to the bearings. None here I can conjure up. In the long run, just a minor thing for guys who want to know why, not just how.

But you left out the picture?

[Billthebuilder]

You have never seen how I can slop paint with a roller

[Flat6pac]

This has worked for me for decade's
Bruce

[Walt Fricke]

Thats what the guy with a shop showed me 25 years ago, though he (and thus I) circled all three bolt holes (maybe some oil could creep up the threads?) and skipping the side-to-side connector when I realized no way oil could get there to go anywhere.

But a little too much is better than a little too little.