3.0L, or 3.2L engine? DECISION ! PLEASE HELP

PaulGTS · 06-22-2003, 06:54 AM

I am not a very PORSCHE man, when talking about technical things. I am working on restoring my 1977 911s. I almost finish with body and interior work. Now, I need to decide what engine to use, because I scrap my old engine. My old engine gave me a lot of problems ( overheat, pull stud.....etc). I would like to have EFI with 210hp-260hp. Do I need to use 3.0L or 3.2L? If I would know that 3.0L can be upgrade to high HP, and I know what parts I need. I would chose 3.0L, it's cheaper.

Please help!

thanks,

MY83SC · 06-22-2003, 11:15 AM

Myself, I think I would go with the 3.2. Mostly due to the motronic injection. Both engines can easily produce the power you are looking for. Dayum, I wish I didn't live in California. I'd love to rip out all of the smog crud and get the ponies my car deserves!

Kemo · 06-22-2003, 01:12 PM

If I ever do an engine swap...it will be to a 3.6. However, if money is an issue, I think the 3.0-3.2 engines fit in there with out as much fuss, which means cheaper.

Good luck and post some pics of your project as it unfolds.

MY83SC · 06-22-2003, 01:47 PM

Myself, I would never do an engine swap. Devaluates the car. In MYHOP. I'll just do a rebuild when the time comes. But if I had a '77, lived in Washington, and the "S" engine was beyond recovery....what a shame.........a 3.6 would be my ultimate choice. Wide body conversion also needed to show off the cars new roots. 10 grand plus and wellah........ 0 to 60 in like 5 second range........NICE!!!!

john walker's workshop · 06-22-2003, 02:40 PM

the easiest would be a 3.0. pretty much a bolt-in. a 3.2 requires a different management system than the car has now, not that it can't be done. as far as devaluing a 77 with a 3.0, i don't think so.

PaulGTS · 06-22-2003, 04:13 PM

Thanks to all of you for providing me with a very very very helpful information. conversion? wide body? sound pretty cool, I love that. First I thought about convert to a turbo look. Then, I calculated all the components including suspension, engine, turbo, modify body, repaint..etc. it total pretty close to some turbo car for sale. After I had a bad experienced with 2.7L, now I just want to look for engine that alittle more reliable, and enough power when passing slow drivers. If I convert to a 3.2L, does it require seriouse modify?

again, thanks to all of you

MY83SC · 04:25 PM

??? What would sell for more... a 1977 with a solid, correctly rebuilt matching serial number "S" engine or a 1977 with a transplanted 3.0 or 3.2??? I'd think the "S" engine would (JMHO)....But in Pauls case, listen to John.

MY83SC · 04:43 PM

I just have one response Paul...To doing a converstion....Yes you could buy a tired 930 for the same price....But then if you did convert yours,you would have a fresh engine, new paint and a car that would be trouble free for years. I was also suggesting the "Turbo look" and not actually going to the added exspense of Turbo charging.....With light weight and a 3.6....who needs a turbo charger! :>)

Porsches are the greatest of cars and so much fun. You own a classic. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!

MY83SC · 06-22-2003, 05:12 PM

Here I go again,,, since you have decide to go with a different motor than your car was originally supplied with, as John stated, you must consider the cost of the "management" system. AKA.....Fuel delivery system.

I believe, since you have a '77 many of the fuel delivery components will be compatable with the 3.0 engine.....There will be a substantionaly greater cost going to the 3.2 with a motronic fuel injection system versus the k-jet.

Trying to get back on track as far as a 3.0 vs. a 3.2 transplant

CRNT918 · 06-22-2003, 08:04 PM

The real question is,
How much MONEY do you Got???

dd74 · 06-23-2003, 04:46 PM

Each of the three options mentioned here, have inherent liabilities, and of course "pluses."

Being one who has transplanted a 3.0 in a '74 911, I have to say that I'm more than satisfied with the power the car now produces.

First, the 3.0 - yes, it is a straight bolt in. The liability here is the age of the engine. You can get a real basket case if you're not careful. I've lately seen "rebuilt" 3.0s showing up, and for around $4K. Because of the ease of installation, as I'm told, (I did not do the install myself), it makes this the natural replacement for a 2.7.

Second, the 3.2 - transmission work will have to be included to get the 3.2 to work with your car. I don't know exactly what that entails, but it doesn't sound significant - just another hassle. The EFI may be another concern as well.

Third, the 3.6 - nice, but pricey. You're looking at changing virtually everything about the car's moving parts to utilize the large power the engine puts out. 300 hp, easy. Which will be real fun. But...torsion bars are a concern for that power, brakes are another concern, and the 915 tranny in heated combat, yikes! Oil cooling is one more issue since the 3.6 utilizes no engine oil cooler, only remote. Bigger tires and wheels might also be needed, which might mean widening the fenders.

Inherent problems with any of the three engines - broken studs in the 3.0 and worn valve guides in the 3.2 - be aware of both. Gasket problems occur in some 3.6s, though I'm not sure where. Most of these engines with these problems, however, have by now been remedied by the dealer -- again so I've heard.

With the 3.0 and 3.2, you'll want to go with a better exhaust, since that'll truly maximize the power the engines can put out. The 3.2 can be chipped for even more horsepower, whereas the 3.0 needs new pistons, fuel delivery and cams for anything significant.

Check out Wayne's book and Bruce Anderson's book for more on these swaps. All-in-all, either of the three would be worth your while. It's just a matter of how much you're willing to spend and modify.

PaulGTS · 06-23-2003, 06:44 PM

I just can't believe how much help I get from all of you. It seem like everyone here is a doctor of their own porsche. I am new to porsche's world. After reading every messages here, I come to conclusion, and that is to use a 3.0L on my car. Because it doesnt require a lot of modify, just like dd74, MY83SC, and John had mentioned. This is a 1977 s version coupe, and I found no rust on this car, there is not a single rust on fenders, frame, or inside the car. this is why I like to do very MIN modify to the car. I do like to have flares. In fact, I had ordered a wider wheels, and a turbo tail. I just havent look into flare yet.

again, thanks to all of you, especially MY83SC, dd74, and John for the clear detail about porsche engines.

CRNT918 · 06-23-2003, 07:08 PM

Good choice!

Lothar · Lothar's Garage

My vote is for 3.0. Keep the CIS, go with early exhaust or SSI's and 964 cams. Now, do you go with early "Big Port" w/ lower compression or later 3.0 at 9.5:1? The plot thickens.

beepbeep · 10:32 AM

Hmm...i would use 3.2L engine. It's much more modern, has better driveability, uses less fuel and can be chipped for more power. Also, it already has EFI so aftermarket EFI isn't such a big undertaking.

3.0 has CIS, and CIS is unfortunately dead-end in my book. That FI plainly s***s. You seem to be a guy who likes little extra power, and that's why i believe you'll be happier with 3.2. Prices are roughly the same, and wiring in Motoronic isn't such a big issue.

Imagine yourself in three years, thinking about turbocharging it and/oir fitting it with EFI. You'll need to swap the intake, find/buy all injectors and surounding stuff and will be cursing yourself that you didn't buy engine with "headroom" from the very beggining.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

I agree w/ beepbeep. The 3.2 is probably the way to go for the all the reasons already delineated.

The electric part of the swap is not a big deal same for the trans mods(a hack saw will work for that)

The torquier more modern engine will be much more reliable and satisfying.

If there is any extra $, ssi and sport cams are really nice additions in non smog areas.

If/when you buy the engine just be sure to get the DME and engine wiring harness that goes with the engine. There have been several very nice ones for sale recently from 3.6 updaters.

PaulGTS · 07-08-2003, 06:16 PM

hmmm I am still searching for the engine. but first I got to finish my final step, and that is to get the flares on my car. I possibly change my mind to 3.2. When I read what beepbeep said, 3.2 sounds like it's good engine for now and future.

again, thanks to all of you

MY83SC · 07-09-2003, 05:19 AM

Paul,

All in all, a 3.2 would be the better "over-all" choice. EFI vs. CIS and a better tranny. If I had the extra.....just guessing ....3-4 grand...I'd go for the 3.2 conversion. And if you were to ever sell, you'd probably gain most of that back versus the 3.0. It all boils down to money. If I had even more money, I would go with a 3.6! Now that would be one "kick in the pants" car!

TerryBPP · 07-09-2003, 12:36 PM

Go with the 3.2 and nix the FI. I would use PMO's or Webers (46's).

dd74 · 07-09-2003, 01:01 PM

3.2s? You better watch out for worn valve guides and connecting rods - those are the engine's weak points.

I'd still do a 3.0. Electronic F.I. can get real complex, difficult to diagnose, etc. Plus, it's still old tech compared to 3.6 stuff or even Promotive et al.

With a 3.2, by the time you put PMOs or Webers on the engine, you're best off looking at upgraded pistons and cams, too. If you do this, guess where your dollar amount is? Past 3.6 territory. So you might as well get a 3.6.

3.2 induction can be adapted to 3.0s. Check out Clewett Engineering. You get the electronic stuff plus 3.0 reliability.

But before you do that, consider this: CIS supported turbo Porsches up to the 3.6. It's simple, and damn cheap. A good wrench can have it singing show tunes pretty easily.

Just my thoughts.