Original Owner - $35,000 Quote For 85' Carrera 3.2 Rebuild

[ABikePeddler]

This is my first post.

Apologies if I am posting this in the incorrect forum thread. I searched last night and today for answers to my question: "How much should a complete rebuild of a 3.2 motor for an 85' Carrera cost?" but amazingly, I struggled to find much.

Quick background:

So a few years ago I had a structure fire that took all my personal belongings as well as my car collection. While recovering from this horrible experience, I bonded with a fellow, local San Diego resident who also lost their home in a fire around the same time as my incident. Incredibly, at the time of their fire, their Guards Red 1985 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe (Original owner) just happened to be parked outside and was undamaged. Because of the time it took to rebuild their home, their Carrera spent time in the elements (San Diego's version of "elements" that is...) and had some UV damage to the paint etc. It was fully functioning, it just needed some cosmetic TLC. Since I have a background in car maintenance and restoration I offered to bring the car back to cosmetic life, no charge. After a solid month, of color correction, repainting, new exterior rubber bits, felts, and wheel restoration, this 80,000 mile beauty was back! It was a fun project and helped me mentally recover from my own fire. I really bonded with their car.

Fast forward this this past week. The owner called me to tell me they had a low oil incident and the engine is damaged! I do not know all the specifics that led up to this issue but the car was looked at by a local San Diego Porsche specialist which suggested the engine is going to need a full rebuild. (There is metal in the oil and the car is not producing oil pressure) The engine is original to the car. The owner was told engine rebuilds START at $35,000. Funny thing is, my gut was telling me a rebuild was going to run north of $30k... not sure why I thought that.

So I am trying to determine what a full, open case rebuild should cost and where to get it done? The cars owner just wants to return it to stock unless there are recommended upgrades that are wise for durability/reliability. I myself have owned 4 different 911/912's over the years so I do have experience with these cars but have never had to navigate an engine rebuild. I am sure the San Diego shops are competent and all but I also know, best to ask some experts before just signing checks. You all know way more about this and it would be wise for me to ask. Where should we start? Where should we go? What should we pay?

[Black 993]

Really depends on how much metal went through the engine and how much was damaged. At the high end, you're looking at pistons/cylinders, oil pump, cams, etc etc. The good news is all that stuff can be bought used in good shape for relatively cheap. And a stock 3.2 rebuild is not such a big deal, certainly nothing like the early magnesium engines that need thousands in machine shop work. $35k strikes me as significantly too high. You need to find a shop that will remove the engine and tear it down (two days labor max) and then show you what you have so you can make informed decisions. If you or the owner can hunt down good used parts, all the better. Lots of people mod their 3.2's, so it shouldn't be hard to find stock p/c's, cams, etc.

[917_Langheck]

A couple of places to poke around for some direction or answers would be Black Forest (Mark Kinninger or Steve Grosekemper) or Adam at Völlig Autoworks.

There are other likely shops, but these are two I'd start with.

[Peliways12]

That's a fair price for a 85' rebuild

[Henry Schmidt]

Low oil incident will mean a damaged crank. Generally repairable, the $ 35K number is the top of the range in So. Cal. Their are plenty of "experts" out their but very few masters of the air cooled engine. Where you take it is more important than the price you are quoted.

[Mr. Merk]

I don't see how you'd spend less than 40k.

If it were mine, I'd be taking it to Goritz in Costa Mesa.

[blue911rsr]

Don’t forget the oil cooling system will need cleaning and probably replacing
That’s going to cost a few dollars

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

I don't see how you'd spend less than 40k.

If it were mine, I'd be taking it to Goritz in Costa Mesa.

An expert that concentrates on Air-cooled engine rebuilds will rebuild as necessary . The generic mechanic will replace far more than legitimately required.
It's the difference between "parts replacer" and engine builder.

Henry @ Supertec is one of the best engine builders around. He's the guy Porsche shops turn to for sub-let engine builds.

[ABikePeddler]

Thanks for a all the great responses! Such solid advice. Having the motor rebuilt correctly is more important than having it done cheaply... we are on the same page with that! So I am going to recommend to the owner that they talk to a couple of the recommended shops, ask them some questions, answer some questions and, as suggested, have them tear the engine down to see what exactly is needed. I will say, I am amazed at the cost to rebuild one of these. The engine rebuild estimate is exactly what they paid for the car, brand new, 40 years ago. That's pretty ironic.

These forums are so incredibly helpful and it is the knowledgeable people like you that make ownership of cars like this possible. Thank you to everybody for taking the time to advise us...


ABP

[28tbsfan]

I’m in for roughly 30k but this guy has had my vehicle for close to two years for multiple mishaps. I’d gladly pay 40k to have gotten it back in a timely manner.

[colingreene]

this guy being who?

[28tbsfan]

Originally Posted by colingreene

this guy being who?

A Porsche shop in the Midwest.

[ABikePeddler]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the thoughtful reply's. So very helpful. I agree with those of you that suggested it best to do it right than do it cheap. So we are on the same page for sure. With that said, I am sure everyone can understand ones hesitancy when faced with a $30+ engine rebuild. That is a significant sum of money and, coincidentally, the exact price the owner paid for the car in 1985. And when I factor in a new cooling system and clutch, well, that price is likely to go up. So the owner and I are going to talk with some of the suggested engine builders,, gather some more info (and courage...) and find a path forward. Just wanted to thank everyone for the help so far.

[john walker's workshop]

R&R the oil tank and clean the bits out as well as the thermostat, side oil lines and front cooler should be mentioned when asking about an estimate, which can only be accurate after a full teardown, clean, inspect and measure.

[PeteKz]

Am I sensing that you might be interested in buying the car?

[ABikePeddler]

Originally Posted by pmax

Given the heart burn, skip the clutch for now unless you know it's bad. That'll save him 1K or so.

The cooling system revamp as Mr Walker described, that's doable for amateurs like us, save him another lot.

These were good suggestions. The cooling system is something mere moratals can handle. I am from the "do it while you're in there" school however. If we have the engine out and apart, might as well do everything. A 40 year old clutch with 88,000 miles on it is not a wise thing to ignore in my experience. Plus, this particular car spent a lot of it's early years on east coast tracks so the fact the clutch has made it this far is a testament to the driver and the engineering. Thanks for the good suggestions!

[28tbsfan]

Originally Posted by pmax

Ouch...

good luck there.

Which shop is this ?

It’s a former reputable shop owner who i apparently waited too long to get my car in. The guy is 80 now and I think is declining in mental capacity. Either way, I was told it’s not proper to name names because mechanics get upset.

[ABikePeddler]

Originally Posted by pmax

Sure, but your friend was running with the same 40 year old clutch before this unfortunate incident and would have continued to do so had the engine not fail. You can replace it for him when it finally goes.

What happened anyway ? Did he not check the oil ?

Compared to the cost of the overall rebuild, the cost of doing the clutch, while the engines out, seems like smart money rather than rolling on the original clutch until it will, inevitably, need to be replaced. Why pull the motor twice?

I was not with the owner when the incident happened so I can't speak to the specifics. I can say, not all Porsche 911 owners are men.

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Am I the only one who thinks it might be wiser to buy a replacement engine? It's not an exceptionally rare car. The car would be out of service for a much shorter time and if you're looking at $35k for a rebuild, you can source one that has been rebuilt for less than that. Then you're just swapping one for another.

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Cunningham

Am I the only one who thinks it might be wiser to buy a replacement engine? It's not an exceptionally rare car. The car would be out of service for a much shorter time and if you're looking at $35k for a rebuild, you can source one that has been rebuilt for less than that. Then you're just swapping one for another.

That scenario is probably 1/3 of our business. Replace a worn out engine with one that we’ve rebuilt and have ready to go. You spend ~ $30-35k on the rebuilt engine and then sell your core or we buy it for partial credit towards the new engine. Shipping is $400-650 depending on location and you have an engine ready to install.