How do you guy's install an engine?

[William Miller]

I just completed my engine Friday night. Since I was going away for the weekend I wanted to at least get it mounted to the trans and bolted in place.

It came out so easy I didn't really pay attention to how I had things set up. I simply used a 2 ton floor jack and kept it balanced while I lowered it.

Friday night (It was getting about 1 or 2am.)
I had the engine sitting on a piece of 3/4" plywood on top of a Motorcycle / ATV lift. (I saw these mentioned on a Bulitin Board)
This worked great because it colapses small and lifts about 16" and is very stable when it is raised.

With the front wheels on the ground I was able to roll the engine under the rear with the bumper @ 34". Once it was under the engine bay I lowered the car a bit so it would be more stable.
(The jack stands under the torsion tubes fully extended.) My guess is that the bumper was about 28-30" off the ground.

First I was having trouble getting the engine high enough for the long bolt (For the starter) to get into the hole before the fan hits the frame on the back of the engine bay.

I worked at pushing the transmission down to meet this bolt and got that long bolt started in the hole. I then realized that even though it was going in the hole a little that it was going to bind because it still wasn't aligned (Meaning crankshaft with input shaft.) The back of the engine will have to go up, but it can't because the fan is hitting.

I decided that if I lowered the rear of the car (Front wheels are still on the ground) The alignment would be a little better.
After some struggle I got it in, but I couldn't see if the forks lined up in the release bearing. I was getting frustrated and tired so I pulled it apart and lowered it to rest. Or let me rest and get my head back together.

So what's the recipe for getting it aligned easily the first time?

I can't remember if I had the front jacked up when I took the engine out.

The good thing about the motorcycle jack is that it's very stable.
The bad thing is that it's so stable that you can't wiggle the engine arround much to get it to mate. It lift's the engine up flat, maybe it needs to lean up in the front a little to match the dangling transmission.

Any advice before I try again?

Once mated which hole do you look into to check the clutch fork.

There's a big one on the top (in the center) a little one on the bottom. There's one on the left upper side of the transmission. And there's one on the lower left side of the transmission. Do you look from above or through the wheel well.
Maybe I should pull the starter off?

Any help would be apreciated!

[Doug Zielke]

Thats why many of us advocate removing/installing the engine and transmission together.

[Pat S]

I used two jacks to help angle the engine so it would match the angle of the trans. It works best with two people so you can wiggle it in a bit then lift a bit, etc. It will slide on and quite easily once the angles are right.
With the fork, I did it by feel and have only a 50% rating. Got it right the first time, missed it the second.

[Wayne 962]

Until you've spent 15 hours under a car grinding off CV bolts that were frozen and stripped, you typcially recommend dropping the engine and tranny together.

I don't see any need to. JW, what do you do?

Look through the hole in the top of the transmission for the mate...

-Wayne

[cstreit]

I've had two engine re-installs go really well, and one that was a pain in the butt for precisely the reasons you described. The big difference?

In the first two I had the fan removed. It allows you to maneuver the engine most easily otherwise you're right, the fan hits the rear cross member before you can get the engine at the right position and angle to meet the trans.

Remove the alternator fan and housing and you'll find it should go a lot easier.

I use a small flashlight and look down the top hole to see the shift for alignment. If you have the whole CIS installed, this is really difficult. I've found that it's much easier in the long run to install the top of the motor after mating for the above reasons.

[William Miller]

I'm going to try again tonight when I'm not exhausted and can think clearly.

I did have it together Friday, but pulled it apart because I wasn't sure about the fork. Which top hole are you guy's talking about? My trans has an angular, 3 side cut out on the top where the trans meets the engine. I have another on the left side top in the bell part. (It's a round hole that is partially covered.)
When I looked in the top hole (I could see it pretty easy with the CIS installed) I could mostly only see the ring gear and the edge of the pressure plate. The engine was a little more than an inch away from the trans. Maybe this is too close?


When setting the car up on jackstands do you raise the front too so the car is level? If not how far do you raise the ass end (Or lower it because it's pretty high to get the engine under it.)

I searched this site for a while but I'm not good at search techniques either.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

William,

I have felt your pain. I know that JW and Wayne do take the moteurs out without the transmission but I am in the same boat as Doug. I have done it both ways and for a first timer taking the pair out is much easier to re-mate. That said:

The hole on my 915 is on the left side center at the top when I stand at the back of the car. I use a mirror and a flashlight. Start checking the fork before you get the studs inserted. Try and insert the motor on the same plane as the transmission. The studs and the bell housing should not bind. If the transmission and motor are not on the same plane the fork could engage only the top or bottom of the throw out bearing. From first hand, I know this and have had to replace both because of my error. a real pain when all you want to do is drive the baby...

The fork will fit nicely into the groove on the throw out bearing. I played with it a few times going back and forth and found where to position the fork so the bearing could "grab" it on the way into the bell housing. You can index the fork using the splined stud coming out of the bottom of the belll housing.

I left the front of the car touching the ground and used the jack to help position the motor for the transmission. If you raise the front tires off the ground your transmission will now be facing to the ground and your angle of attack will be more incorrect.

Remember, do not force. It is an expensive mistake. When everything matches it goes together with a minimum of pressure. The times it goes together well are the times when I start to feel more resistance as the motor is fully in the bell housing.

If you replaced the clutch, did you use a new throw out bearing? I also applied a very, very thin coat of grease to the throw out bearing guide tube to help ease the mating.

For reading on my problems:

Information on Corrective Action: Post Re-Build Squeal

Motor does not want to slide into transmission

Throw Out Bearing Problem

Correct way to mate motor and transmission???

[Wayne 962]

"My trans has an angular, 3 side cut out on the top where the trans meets the engine."

That's correct...

-Wayne

[cstreit]

You can see the shift fork long enough to make sure it's engaged through the hole, er, angular, 3 side cut out on the top ( ) while your pushing the engine in.

Despite other opinions, mine is still that engine installation is easier without the trans... Provided the fan is removed...

[William Miller]

The one man engine lift / install went very well. here's what I did.
I kept the front wheels on the ground. I lifted the ass end way up with a small floor jack on either side. One on a jack pad and one under the frame near the jack pad. You need a short (about 6-8") piece of 4x4 on top of the jacks to get the car high enough to roll the engine under the back.
The engine was on the ATV jack witha piece of 3/4 " plywood supporting the heat exchangers. I'm not sure the plywoos is actually necessary.
Once the engine was under the bay I lowered the car and raised the jack until I could get the transmission parallel to the ground.

When I got them in alignment I took measurements. The bottom edge of the torsion tubes were 21 1/2" off the floor and the top of the pad on the ATV jack was 14" (Recall that this does not count the 3/4" plywood.)
My jack stands are about 1 1/2 -2" short.

It took me some trial and error to get it to this point, but I think it will be easily repeatable if we set it up the first time using these numbers.

At this point the engine mated very easily with some wiggling and pushing.
I could see the clutch fork align by shining the drop light in the side hole and looking in the top hole. (This was with the engine seperated a bit. Before the pressure plate closes the gap. When the gap was closed I checked again by shining the light in the top hole and looking in the side hole with a mirror. Lastly to double check I pulled the engine out a bit and it all slid back together easily.

Once it was buttoned together I lifted the engine and lowered the car until I could get the rear mounting bolts caught and tightened.

Chris, I did this with the complete motor CIS installed the only modification is that my coil is not bolted to the fan but is mounted on the
relay board next to the ignition control unit. I think it would work regardless. Save these numbers and try in next time.

Overall it went very well. The only thing that was a pain was getting the back up light switch wires routed with the big ribber boot on it and plugged in. I ended up breaking one of the connectors off and I'll have to solder it back on tonight. There must be a better way to do that.

I have a few things left to connect and I might just get it fired up tonight!

Thanks for all the help guy's!

BTW: Wayne, I replaced the input shaft seal as you suggested. I found a neat wire trick in Bently's manual to pry off the tube. Maybe you could post that somewhere? There is also an O-ring on the tube that probably should be replaced so if you do an update on your book you might want to mention to buy the o-ring with the seal.