Engine drop suggestions.......Tyson?

[schubee]

I'll be attempting an engine drop tonight on my 964. Do you guys have any suggestions or tips on a successful drop?

Should I remove the entire exhaust (GHL h/e and muffler) system?

[Wayne 962]

With the 964 - you can still take the engine out with the exhaust mainly intact. However, if you are going to be removing the exhaust anyways, it's probably a wise idea to do it now...

-Wayne

[schubee]

Well, I successfully dropped my engine yesterday. The motorcycle jack made the process smooth. Now the fun part.....taking it apart and putting it back together!

[dtw]

Can you comment on why this engine has to be rebuilt? Are the exhaust valve guides worn out?

[schubee]

Dave,

The engine does not have to be rebuilt. I pulled it to fix the following:

Cam shaft leak (power steering)
Chain covers leak
Valve adjustment
R&R clutch and flywheel


Maybe I didn't have to completely drop the engine to perform the tasks mentioned above but I wanted to experience what it takes to drop an engine. The engine is at 116K and was running strong. The leaks bugged me and the clutch needed replacement. In addition, 1990 3.6's had the cylinder head gasket issue. This one was showing little signs of 'seepage' from that area. So a complete tear down is necessary to do it 'right'. I don't know if my exhaust valve guides are worn but I'll know in a couple days. I'll probably get a complete valve job including port and polish. I'm sure I'll run into those 'might as well' things since I have easy access now.

[Tyson Schmidt]

If you are doing a top-end, I strongly suggest replacing the case through-bolt o-rings while you're at it. I've seen a few 964's and 993's leak from there, and it's a major endeavor if you have to it all over again just to get at those o-rings.

I'd be willing to bet that the exhaust guides on #2, 3 and 6 are worn past the limit.

You might think about replacing the clutch slave cylinder now as well. And of course, the cross-shaft, needle bearing cups, clutch fork, rear main, main-shaft seals, and bearing retainer o-ring.

Boy, do those parts add up! but you don't want to have to do this twice because you skimped on even one $20 part.

[emcon5]

John, I would like to ask you a favor.

If you have time, can you please post a few detail pictures of how your plug wires are routed?

Thanks,

Tom

[schubee]

Tom,

I'm taking off the tin tonight so I'll snap some pictures of the plug wires. What details are you looking for?

Tyson,

As always, thanks for the suggestions. Why would you suggest changing the slave cylinder? Is that something that goes bad or since I have it out it would be wise to?

Thanks,

[emcon5]

Originally posted by schubee
Tom,

I'm taking off the tin tonight so I'll snap some pictures of the plug wires. What details are you looking for?

Routing, specifically how the wires are routed to the lower plugs.

Thanks,

Tom

[Tyson Schmidt]

Originally posted by schubee
Tom,

I'm taking off the tin tonight so I'll snap some pictures of the plug wires. What details are you looking for?

Tyson,

As always, thanks for the suggestions. Why would you suggest changing the slave cylinder? Is that something that goes bad or since I have it out it would be wise to?

Thanks,

Simply much easier to do it now. And they see a lot of heat throughout their lifetime. It's not as critical that you do it now as the other things are, since it can be done later without removing the engine. But since it's easy now, and it's clutch related, it makes sense. I'm doing my clutch this weekend and this is what I'm doing. I may do 1st-3rd synchro's while I'm at it as well. Also the breather hose at the top of the ngine, and the o-ring for the engine thermostat block-off plate.

[schubee]

Tyson,

I'll definitely do the clutch slave cylinder as you suggest. How hard is it to bleed the line?

What gear oil do you recommend for a G50?

Is the clutch R&R on Scruffy or your C2? I think I'll be going with the Andial flywheel set up.

[Tyson Schmidt]

Use synthetic gear lube for G50's. Swepco works O.K., but makes the synchro's a little more balky when cold.

I'm actually in the process right this very evening of doing the clutch in my C2. It turns out that my disc wasn't worn badly at all. My problems were caused by a leaky mainshaft seal that soaked the clutch. (Same thing happened to Scruffy!!)

The plus side is that the flywheel was recently replaced with an LUK. If only they had replaced the mainshaft seal when they did the update. Oh well, I got a lot of other little things fixed while I was at it.

Bleeding the clutch isn't terribly bad. You can make it easier by connecting the slave up to the trans while the engine is still in partial-drop mode. That way you can get at the nuts, and the bleeder screw from over the top of the engine.

It is absolutelt essential that you keep the brake fluid reservoir topped up to the hilt at all times when you are bleeding. If it drops down more than a few cm., it will draw in air, since the inlet for the clutch master is near the top. They did this so that the clutch couldn't starve the much more important brake circuit.

[Wayne 962]

[i]They did this so that the clutch couldn't starve the much more important brake circuit. [/B]

Hmm, I think it's so that the clutch will stop working from a lack of fluid before the brakes stop working...

-Wayne

[Tyson Schmidt]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Hmm, I think it's so that the clutch will stop working from a lack of fluid before the brakes stop working...

-Wayne

Please tell me how that's different?

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by Tyson Schmidt
Please tell me how that's different?

Hmm, I've been thinking about this for about two minutes now. I guess these two statements are about the same, I just thought that the word 'starve' was a bit unclear as to the outcome of what happens when the fluid gets low.

-Wayne

[Tyson Schmidt]

Yeah, It wasn't the most comprehensive explanation, but it was late, I was tired, and my main point was that it is very important to keep the reservoir topped up while bleeding the clutch.

This board is tough man. You can't get away with vague explanations even if they are besides the point, or someone will jump all over it! I have a hunt-and-peck typing style, so I try to keep it simple.

[Wayne 962]

Just trying to make it clear for everyone...

-Wayne

[Chas White]

The first statment (Tyson's) was perfectly clear.
C.W.

[KTL]

Originally posted by Tyson Schmidt

It is absolutelt essential that you keep the brake fluid reservoir topped up to the hilt at all times when you are bleeding. If it drops down more than a few cm., it will draw in air, since the inlet for the clutch master is near the top.

I can attest to this. When I was bleeding my brakes and clutch, I did the clutch last. The Motive pressure bleeder was running low on fluid and therefore the level in the reservoir started dropping down. Sure enough, the system started to draw air into itself. Had to refill the pressure bleeder and re-do the clutch line.

I can also attest that bleeding the clutch system kinda blows. The slave is tough to get at way atop the trans. and it's difficult to get your wrench on the bleeding screw in a good position. I like to put a box-end wrench on the bleeder nipple and then install the discharge hose. A flare end/hex wrench doesn't give you a small enough angle of rotation IMO.

Tyson's suggestion of bleeding the clutch slave with the engine in partial-drop position is a very good recommendation. Saves you a bit of aggravation, I think.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by KTL
I can also attest that bleeding the clutch system kinda blows. The slave is tough to get at way atop the trans. and it's difficult to get your wrench on the bleeding screw in a good position.

Makes me happy I have a no-clutch-bleeding-required cable.

Tom