Re-ring Alusils? - Page 26

KobaltBlau · 05-18-2006, 06:29 AM

I'm (still) on the edge of my seat!

Porsche_monkey · 05-29-2006, 09:46 AM

Okay, more info. I picked up my 'repaired' cylinder from the rebuilder. He claims that he used this technique years ago as a factory authorized rebuilder for Vega engines, and (more importantly) for Orenda aircraft.

I don't think I've ever seen a brand new alusil cylinder so I can't comment on appearnce versus a new one, but it looks very clean with just the slightest cross-hatch visible. I'll post a picture shortly.

I'm going to mail this cyclinder back to Rindinone and hopefully he can move a little quicker than I did on getting this looked at. I'm anxious to see how close this cylinder is to 'factory'.

Porsche_monkey · 05-29-2006, 11:00 AM

Hope this isn't too big....

safe · safe's Garage

It has been a long time since I read through this thread.

Was this cylinder scrap and what technique has been used on it?

Porsche_monkey · 05-30-2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
so those are chrome rings, right?

Yes he used chrome rings.

Porsche_monkey · 05-30-2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by safe
It has been a long time since I read through this thread.

Was this cylinder scrap and what technique has been used on it?

I think pages 14, 15 and 16 contain most the info you want...

snowman · 12:27 PM

I found the following information in Sunnen's book

Porsche_monkey · 08-29-2006, 11:08 AM

I just mailed a cylinder back to Rondinone that was 'honed' using the method shown by Snowman. He will inspect the surface and let us know if it's anywhere near the 12-18 microinches that Sunnen calls for. If it is in this range then I would say that re-using alusil is safe.

mike95125 · 08-29-2006, 11:25 AM

Hey PBH, was that the cylinder I sent you? I did send mine to you for treatment, didnt I?

It has been a while and I dont remenber who I sent it to

I am glad to see that we are keeping this thing going in our free time

Porsche_monkey · 08-29-2006, 11:29 AM

Yes you sent it to me. It sat around my shop for a long time, then I mailed it to Adam to measure it before honing (I should have had you mail it to Adam directly), he measured it and mailed it back to me, it sat around here a while longer, then it sat around the engine rebuilders shop. Then it got lost in my shipping department. Then, finally it went back to Adam.

That cylinder has more miles on it then my 911.

mike95125 · 08-29-2006, 11:36 AM

Mine too

I have my 2.7 rebilt now and sitting in the car....and maybe some day it will run. The only things I need to adjust are fuel, air and spark

DohertyCM · DohertyCM's Garage

I went through this thread and now I have a headache...

My mechanic friend re-rings all the time. And he has never had any problems, BUT....

I dont go into his shop with out having some idea of what I am talking about.

SO>>>

We have established they can be re-ringed...

Now what rings do you use...part number?

Can you use JE Pistons with these cylinders?

I am at tear down point and need this answered please..

anh911 · 11-08-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DohertyCM
I went through this thread and now I have a headache...

Ha ha, imagine how we felt while it was going on...

My mechanic friend re-rings all the time. And he has never had any problems, BUT....

I dont go into his shop with out having some idea of what I am talking about.

SO>>>

We have established they can be re-ringed...

Now what rings do you use...part number?

I use the goetze (sp?) rings.

Can you use JE Pistons with these cylinders?

No - pistons used with alusil cylinder bores must to be coated with a tin, iron process. (It was suggested that perhaps a graphite coating may work as well but not proven) Aluminum pistons working directly to alusil will result in premature piston wear and clogging of the cylinder walls. For this reason it is recommended that honing of the alusil cylinders be limited to clean up, not for over-sizing since over-sized pistons are not readily available.

I am at tear down point and need this answered please..

DohertyCM · DohertyCM's Garage

Got it Ring part number ANH911 and clean up with the little ball hone..

I guess that saved me some money....if you look at it that way..

Bobboloo · Bobboloo's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by DohertyCM
I went through this thread and now I have a headache...

My mechanic friend re-rings all the time. And he has never had any problems, BUT....

I dont go into his shop with out having some idea of what I am talking about.

SO>>>

We have established they can be re-ringed...

Now what rings do you use...part number?

Can you use JE Pistons with these cylinders?

I am at tear down point and need this answered please..

Yes, the general concensus is they can be re-ringed.

Alusil cylinders are supposed to use ferrod coated pistons. JE pistons do not come that way. I don't even know if they can coated. Maybe someone can comment on that.

Question, are your pistons out of spec? I thought the ferrod coated pistons usually out last the alusil cylinders.

Question #2. Are your rings out of spec?

I'm probably alone on this but I wouldn't replace rings that were in spec on a set of pistons for Alusil cylinders. I don't see the gain. Breaking in a new set of rings would just put additional wear on a set of used cylinders.

safe · safe's Garage

How does a set of used iron plated alusil pistons look like? Isn't there a big chance the plating is worn off?

JBO · 11-09-2006, 07:01 AM

Bobby - you are definitely not alone in your opinion - I was told the same thing by Steve Weiner and some local rebuilders when I was doing a top end a few years ago. Mine were in spec (with 65k miles) and we put them back in, and so far so good.

DohertyCM · DohertyCM's Garage

I dont know yeat, I am just beginning the engine pull. But I was putting together a shopping list and figured heck if the heads are off why not do a re-ring and replace the rod bearings.

Bobboloo · Bobboloo's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by DohertyCM
I dont know yeat, I am just beginning the engine pull. But I was putting together a shopping list and figured heck if the heads are off why not do a re-ring and replace the rod bearings.

That logic makes more sense when your talking about other types of P+Cs' but not necessarily Alusil sets, hence this long thread.

If you've got a broken ring in an an otherwise good Alusil P+C set then obviously you've got no other choice if you want to reuse them.

My thoughts are that if your rings or pistons are near the end of their life with an Alusil set then your cylinders are probably goners and just good for cores anyway in which case I would bore them out and have them Nickasil plated and buy new pistons and rings.

snowman · 07:17 PM

Its sort of like this. If the cylinder is properly honed and holds oil properly, and is of a good material, it will simply not wear. The piston lands will wear, from the pounding up and down and no oil will prevent this. Eventually you need new pistons, but NOT new cylinders. A simple honing will restore the original depth of the oil grooves, microscopic, and your good to go for another 150K miles with new pistons.

A bigger problem is that pistons and cylinders are sold in sets, not individually. You can get them individually but the cost will probably be that of a complete set anyway, so as a practical matter, you get both, need it or not.

If your in business, you cannot use "used parts" just because you have no knowledge of their history, so back to full sets.