Denver DisAssembly Party

mtelliott · 03-21-2004, 06:18 PM

Many of you may remember that I rebuilt my 3.0 SC motor, started her up, and found that it was leaking oil like crazy.

Help: REbuild is leaking oil like crazy

Well, it's time to DisAssemble it and see what I did wrong. So, I'm throwing a party. This Saturday, March 27th, I will be pulling the engine apart to see what exactly I did wrong and to have a couple of fellow wrenches critique / chastize my work. Should be a good time for everyone but me.

Let me know if you are interested. I plan on pulling the heads and cams off as one unit so any advice before hand that you might have is appreciated. Should only take a couple hours since I will already have it out of the car and on the stand.

This is a great opportunity for anyone interested in rebuilding a 911 engine on what not to do with plenty of Q&A from some of the local Denver wrenches with decades of experience. My plan is to start around 9:00 with coffee and bagels provided. My guess is that we'll be done by 12:00 (although my humilation should last much longer). I'm not asking for anyone to do the work, just enjoy watching it be done.

I welcome any advice any of you might have on how to disassemble with and an emphasis on efficiency, tricks of the trade, etc. My biggest concern is being able to pull the cams and heads as one unit to reinsert as one unit. I plan on documenting with pictures so I'll post the results.

Send me an e-mail m_ben_nevis@msn.com or PM me and I'll give you directions and my number. I live in south Denver. Please feel free to stop by and meet some other Denver Pelicanites and RMR Porsche club members.

Michael

viejopatron · viejopatron's Garage

Hi Michael,

Please keep us posted and supply photos. As I'll be building a 3.0, I'll be standing on your shoulders. I noticed in your earlier thread that there was mention of applying sealant on the O-ring. I wouldn't do that since an O-ring is intended to displace [move] when hit by pressurized fluid. If it's held back by sealant, it has the potential of not making a decent seal.

As an old fart with teenagers, they're only babies for a very brief period [and you thought a porsche could go by fast], whereas that engine isn't going anywhere. Nuff said.

Gary

Grady Clay · 03-22-2004, 06:45 AM

Michael,
I have a 911 engine stand yoke for you. You need to insure that it fits the stand asap.
I’ll bring the tools to undo the cam nuts. Anything else you need?
If the weather is crummy this Saturday, I have two 20x20 tents and two propane heaters if you want.

Gary,
You are right, it seems like yesterday my son first got in a racing kart at 10. He raced karts since then, Spec Miata last summer, and Formula Mazda now. He has two non-running Porsches that he can’t drive until he graduates from college in about ’08.
We have had the best eight years imaginable – him as race car driver and mechanic, me as tow truck driver and general lackey.
How old are your teens? There is lots of SoCal activity. If y’all are interested, I can advise.

Best,
Grady
gradyclay@hotmail.com

mtelliott · 02:08 PM

With some expert assistance from Grady Clay, the engine is now out of the car. Saturday is the party for where I went wrong. The assumption on a sealant issue is the best guess but we're going to have a lot of eyes on it once ew separate the cases.

I have a few people interested in stopping by so let me know if anyone else is interested. Great opportunity for those wanting to rebuild or just want to see what one looks like in real life.

Oops. Server will not let me post pictures right now. I'll have to try later. Time to take my boy to the park.

[img] Sorry: don't know how to flip the picture. If you look closely, you can see Grady's excellent help.

mtelliott · 03-24-2004, 09:11 PM

So, what the best way to disassemble this engine leaving the cams with the cam towers and heads as one unit?

I'm thinking TDC #1, mark CAM gear position (I'm not sure how), then remove 1-2-3 as a unit. Then TDC #4, mark CAM Gear Position, then remove 4-5-6 as a unit.

Anybody got any other ideas? What should I look for when I reassemble.

Michael

jgparker · jgparker's Garage

I would just put the engine at TDC and remove both cam towers and head assemblies as a unit. Leave the cams and rocker in place. I've never had a problem reassembling this way. Just make sure your cam dots are still pointing straight up and your crank is at TDC befor you start reassembling.

Good luck,

JP

mtelliott · 03-25-2004, 07:38 AM

JP

Is this as easy as it seams? I'm thinking this is going to be very straight forward. What should I look out for? Lesson's learned?

jgparker · jgparker's Garage

It is really is as easy as it sounds. Saves a ton of work to keep the heads on the cam towers too. The one tricky part is that the chain housings do not want to come off with the head assembly and cams in place. It can be done, but it may be a little easier to partially remove the head assebmly first, then unhook the chains from the ends of cams, then remove the chain housings. Aslo, don't lie the head assemblies face-down. Some valves will be partially open and will contact the work surface.

JP

jgparker · jgparker's Garage

A picture:

mtelliott · 03-27-2004, 06:13 PM

Well, with the help of a few Pelicans, it's disassembled, bagged, and properly stores.

Now the question is, what did I do wrong. I've enclosed some pictures that I hope will help shed some light. It was leaking out of the top of the #8 nose bearing. I'm very interested in your feadback.

The 3.2 meg pictures are better but I can't upload them due to size limits. Tell me what I should provide a picture of and I'll post.

I truly am looking for your thoughts.

magic930 · 03-27-2004, 08:26 PM

What do you mean by the top of the #8, top around the crank or top against the case?

Peterfrans · 03-28-2004, 08:04 AM

You should not use the case sealant on the crankshaft journals and no8 bearing. See the picture on page 133 of waynes book

mtelliott · 03-28-2004, 08:17 AM

It was flowing out of the top right between where the cases meet.

As for not using sealant against the bearing, I've heard mixed both locally and on the web. Some due, some don't. Not sure who has the right answer. I just know that I have the wrong answer.

Peterfrans · 09:02 AM

It seems that the sealant is pretty thick in those areas. I think the sealant around the no8 bearing prevented the case halves to close properly and squeeze out the sealant. It is a much thicker layer than elsewhere on the case. Or maybe the sealant was just old as in John Walkers post.

I was scared of this happening to my engine also, I worked like crazy to torque the case halves as fast as I could because I was worrying that the sealant would cure . I did not use sealant on the no8 bearing and it still is bone dry.

mtelliott · 03-30-2004, 06:38 AM

So, is the general consensus that I took to long getting the case halves put together and that I got to much sealant in there?

Next question I have is, how should I clean the case to get the sealant off? Should I take a razor blade to scrape it? What kind of cleaner should I use on the case? Last time, the machine shop cleaned the case and did an excellent job.

Michael

Glenn from Denv · 03-30-2004, 06:56 AM

I use the razor blade approach. Just be sure that you hold it flat against the sealing surface.

As far as cleaning goes, I used a machine shop as well. For your scenario, I think it would be OK to use some carb/brake cleaner, followed by some alcohol on a lint free cloth.

mtelliott · 04-01-2004, 08:23 AM

So, this weekend I'm going to clean the case and get it prepped to try again. Should I, or should I not, put loctite 574 around the number 8?

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by mtelliott
So, this weekend I'm going to clean the case and get it prepped to try again. Should I, or should I not, put loctite 574 around the number 8?

No, you shouldn't. Follow the guidelines in the book (someone mentioned page 133?). It doesn't show the sealant around the bearing. The bearing has it's own o-ring to seal - putting sealant in there is probably what interfered with the proper operation of the o-ring.

If you are concerned, coat the outside of the o-ring with a little Curil-T. I'm pretty sure that Walt Watson uses it in that area to prevent leaks like this...

-Wayne