How important is sealing washers ?

[hobieboy]

I'm doing a top end job & got the top end gasket set, but decided to change all the chain ramps. So here's the problem - I am missing the sealing washers for the M10 bolts that secures the 4 chain ramp in the case.

The dealers of course dont stock them & being in up North, ordering a few washers from the host means shipping is 10 times the cost of washers...

So what do I do? Can I re-use the existing ones? I tried & at least one of them wont tighten up (my torque wrench won't click & the bolt just keep turning - don't think that's normal?)?

Will I risk oil spraying everywhere if I simply reuse the existing ones?

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by PatrickT
So what do I do? Can I re-use the existing ones? I tried & at least one of them wont tighten up (my torque wrench won't click & the bolt just keep turning - don't think that's normal?)?

Nope, not normal - sounds like you have other problems, like stripped holes?

-Wayne

[cstreit]

I have re-used the aluminum sealnig washers in the past. Clean them and flatten/refresh them by running them over some 320 grit sandpaper untill fairly flat. The rough sirface helps them seal.

If the ramp bolt won't torque though, I agree with Wayne, you have a stripped thread. Check it out.

[ChrisBennet]

What is the range on the torque wrench? The clicker type wrenches aren't too accurate at the extremes of their range.
-Chris

[hobieboy]

I have a 1/2" one that goes from 25ft-lb to ~200ft-lb and a 3/8" one that goes up to 250 in-lb.

Can't remember exactly what torque that Wayne's book said but I was using the 1/2" one last night. Maybe I can try the 3/8" one tonight?

I had a visual inspection of the thread - they look pretty normal to me.
If it does not torque, what do I need to look for?

Thanks.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by PatrickT
I have a 1/2" one that goes from 25ft-lb to ~200ft-lb and a 3/8" one that goes up to 250 in-lb.

Can't remember exactly what torque that Wayne's book said but I was using the 1/2" one last night. Maybe I can try the 3/8" one tonight?

I had a visual inspection of the thread - they look pretty normal to me.
If it does not torque, what do I need to look for?

Thanks.

Those bolts are only torqued to 18 ft/lbs so you're 1/2" wrench won't even go down that far. It's not surprising that you've stripped that bolt. Don't feel too bad, we've all made these sort of mistakes.

I'd Timesert the hole though I suppose a helicoil would work.

This is what I would do (assuming the chainbox is off):
1. You don't want any thread shaving going into the motor so I would tip the motor on it's side before removing the bolt so any shavings will fall out of the motor.
2. Remove the bolt and clean any bits of thread out.
3. Clean the chain as best you can.
4. Put the chain in something to protect it from chips. A piece of PVC tubing that fits in the case and slips over the chain would be ideal. You need something that will protect the chain in there from getting contaminated. A paper tube might work.
5. Timesert the stripped hole. If you don't feel comfortable with this operation, get someone who knows what they are doing to do this (and watch them). This is not a great hole to learn on.
6. Carefully wipe out the chips. You want to avoid pushing them into the motor so don't go blowing compressed air in there or spraying stuff.

If you fill in your profile maybe someone across the fiord from you (you hint that you are up north) will row over and help you.
-Chris

[hobieboy]

Chris - thanks the help & suggestion.

Is it really that critical for these chain ramp bolt/hole to be perfect since there's a sealing washer underneath to prevent leakage ? (Still hoping I don't have to do this major operation).

And yes - got the message; will update my profile

[Eagledriver]

If you think it's not striped just tighten it by hand and see if it gets tighter as you turn it. If you feel it tighten up you can approximate the correct torque with your hands. If it feels tight and has slightly crushed the aluminum washer then it should be ok. By the sounds of things though you'll probably find that the bolt doesn't get tighter but instead keeps turning and then turns easier as the last of the threads are striped out.

-Andy

[hobieboy]

Indeed the case - it keeps turning at constant friction. Doesn't get tighter nor easier though.

Will try again tonight with the proper wrench.

[ischmitz]

I think even if you don't care about an oil leak you need to fix the thread. You don't want to end up in a situation where the bolt backs out of there and the chain ramp lets go. That would grenade the motor instantly.

If you can turn the bolt with your hand and not get it tight the thread is obviously stripped. A smaller torque wrench now won't help. The friction you feel with your hand is from the bolt interfering with the chain ramp bushing.

Follow Chris' suggestion and repair the thread with a helicoil. Stuff some paper towl or shop rag into the opening to the intermediate shaft to prevent any metal filings finding their way into the engine. If you are not confident in doing that haul the motor to a machine shop and have them do it.

Good luck,
Ingo

[hobieboy]

Just to clarify, the bolt is not loose - I need to use a wrench to put it in (can't use fingers). Its just that when the entire bolt is in, it won't "stop".

I'll take the advice here seriously & repair the thread - definitely don't want to kaput the engine because of failed chain ramp.

[hobieboy]

Just an update... Guess it might have been what Chris said - my 1/2" wrench is simply too big for this job.

Got new washers, re-torque the bolts with my smaller wrench & every one of them worked out ok.

Another lesson for a nervous newbie