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Folks,

Could I user my existing 2.7L 7R case and just swap out the 2.7 crank and rods for a 2.2L crank and rods? due to cost, I would want to use my existing 2.7 p/c sets. by comparing the 2.2 and 2.7 rods it appears that the top dead center of the pistons would be the same, I think the stroke is reduced buy a low botton center in the 2.2l crank rod combination.

Can any body confirmed this? if this is in fact true would the new lower compressing work ok. I'd be happy to be in the 140-150 HP range with using the original cis S cams and pistons. Any thoughts?
Old 08-31-2004, 02:58 PM
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Aaron - my mistake, now edited my earlier post to correct it.

James - I don't see the point of this swap in your case. The whole idea of this type of conversion is to have a high revving engine.

I think your compression ratio would end up pretty low (~7.0:1) & the CIS cams & pistons are not the ideal way to go.
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Old 08-31-2004, 03:11 PM
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James, I agree with Andy. It sounds like you have 2.2 parts that you should sell or trade and get the 2.7 back up and running.
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Old 08-31-2004, 03:47 PM
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Aaron, the 2.4 7R case already has the piston squirters.
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Old 08-31-2004, 05:54 PM
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Thanks for the info Bill, were they on 2.2s? Now is the pistons dia for the 2.5 the same as the 2.7? Or are they the same as the 2.8?
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:06 PM
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Piston squiters started on the 2nd year production of the 2.2 ie 1971.

Sounds like a great engine Andy, I look forward to hearing more.


Alan.UK
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:58 PM
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Accordng to Bruce Anderson:

"From 1970 through 1972 a series of these cars were built for both rallying and GT racing. The first 911STs built to compete in this class had 2.3 liter engines (2247 cc, which was 85 mm bore and 66 mm stroke) and then they were expanded to 2.4 liters (there were two versions 2380 cc 87.5 with mm bore and 66 mm stroke and 2395 cc with 85 mm bore and 70.4 mm stroke) and finally 2.5 liters engine (again their were two versions 2492 cc with 86.7 mm bore and 70.4 mm stroke and 2464 cc with 89 mm bore and 66 mm stroke) The cars built in 1970 and 1971 utilized the 66 mm stroke will most of the later cars built in 1972 used the 70.4 mm stroke.
"
Any use?

you've probably already spoken to Autofarm, but if not they've sold a few ST's in the not too distant past so they can probably help
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Last edited by Luke Hudson; 09-01-2004 at 08:54 AM..
Old 09-01-2004, 08:50 AM
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Thanks Luke I double checked last night as well.
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Old 09-01-2004, 08:58 AM
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Aaron, my recollection is that the squirters were on the 2.2's also. I believe they started putting them in the case after '69. I remember reading it in Wayne's book under the modifications section, I believe. I'll check tonight when I get home.

Edit: p. 85 of Wayne's book says "engine cases manufactured through 1970 did not have piston squirters installed."

I don't know if that means that it was a changed mid-way through the 2.2 production?
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Last edited by 911SCfanatic; 09-01-2004 at 02:16 PM..
Old 09-01-2004, 09:51 AM
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I have a 1970 2.2S motor and everything I have read so far tells me I do not have piston squirters. I do beleive Alan.UK is correct; squirters were introduced in 1971.

On topic of a high-strung, short-stroke motor; how high a compression can you run with twin plugs on 92 octane without detonation? 11:1? 11.5:1?

How high a redline can you run with a short stroke 2.5 and a stock "S" valvetrain?

I have had reputable Porsche mechanics with lots of experience tell me that my stock 2.2S will be fine up to 8,000 RPM. This is taking into account that it is a freshly rebuilt street engine, and not a race engine living at the redline. Any comments on this?
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Old 09-01-2004, 07:03 PM
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Wayne's book is correct concerning the piston squirters. My 2.2 did not have them. Built 11/69.
-Scott
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Old 09-01-2004, 08:30 PM
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I am in the process of building this short stroke 2.5L race motor as we speak. I am removing my 2.7L race motor this next week. I have a 66mm CW crank, i'm sending my 90MM cylinders in for a 1mm sleeve. I have some custom 89MM J&E 10.5:1 (maybe 11:1) pistons being made next week. I'm using the 2.7 liter heads with some port mods (reccomended to me). PMO 46mm carbs. Can't wait!
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Old 09-03-2004, 02:34 PM
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cool! are you modifying the alum case? Make sure you measure the crank for straightness and the line bore of the case. In fact measure everything! I'll help
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Old 09-03-2004, 03:10 PM
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Mark- thats the plan. Hopefully there is not much to do to the case since I bought it from a Porsche mechanic (out of his time trial car). I know it had the oil bypass, but I do not know about the squirters. It will be interesting opening it up.
I'm going to my parents house on Sunday to pick up the parts from my dads house. Then it is motor drop time
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Old 09-03-2004, 03:39 PM
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What are you using for rods?? are you doing any lightening and modifying in side the case? dont forget about the cyl heads they need some close inspection. I think you have alot of hours on those. Take your time, it will payoff in the long run.
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Old 09-03-2004, 03:59 PM
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Yes, the heads are going in for a rebuild with Aase. Having them replace the guides/etc. Rods probably Pauter. I do have some 2.0L rods. I will have those inspected if I use them.... After seeing what is happening to Beck's motors with those Carrillo rods I do not think I will use them.
The case will get all the work it needs...I just want to see what is done to it already. It is an Alum case so I am sure the mechanic did some of the mods since it was in his own race car.
I will be selling the 9.5:1 J&E's to recoup some cost.
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Last edited by Plavan; 09-03-2004 at 05:07 PM..
Old 09-03-2004, 04:13 PM
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I've used Carillos for 5 years, no failures, in fact the same set! I think Becks failures are something else.
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Old 09-03-2004, 04:16 PM
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Any recommendations on port sizes & cams ?

Would 38mm ports be too big (I know where there are some freshly-done twin-plugged heads with 38mm ports) or would standard S ports be better ?

Are S cams about right or should I go with something else ?

I don't mind losing some power/torque lower down but it will be essentially a road engine.
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Old 09-04-2004, 02:05 AM
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We ended up getting my heads polished and ported to 37mm, 39mm. Ollie's also welded up my CIS ports to help with the flow while not sucking down the gasket into the motor. I am helping put the motor together this weekend. It sure will be a beauty! All the engine tin, fan, housing were powdercoated. All the nuts/bolts were sent of to be zinc plated. Plus I bought some sweet 46mm PMO's with their new super tall manifolds! Those are some monsters. The case was boat-tailed and my cylinders were re-plated and mooned. The 66mm counterweighted crank I had was std/std and has been mag'ed and polished up. We are using 2.0L rods (reconditioned of course) with ARP rod bolts. My cams or Elgin performance cams (GE80 profile). If everything goes well, I will probably be breaking this thing in at Willow Springs in a couple of weeks.
I will take some pictures of it going together. I cant wait to start her up.
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Old 10-23-2004, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plavan
.... After seeing what is happening to Beck's motors with those Carrillo rods I do not think I will use them.

Chad,

Can you elaborate on that?
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:01 PM
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