First time rebuilder gaining momentum!
 

Thanks to the confidence you all gave me, I've dropped the engine in my '93 C2 to repair the damage due to water flooding (see post "ID this for a slow $20" - Http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=201186&highlight=%242).

The drop went well – I broke one wire that I forgot to disconnect at the rear of the engine in plain view (duh!). I removed the rear bumper, loosened the intake to gain more flexibility and clearance, and then lowered the whole assembly on an ATV jack. Oh yeah, I dropped the engine a few inches to gain more clearance to get hands, tools and a mirror above the tranny to find\loosen that pesky starter nut.

I had to remove the driver’s side exhaust manifold to get access to the lower tranny bolt. I tried wobbly sockets, open ended wrenches; offset closed wrenches, those ratcheting closed end wrenches, even the offset ratcheting ones, but all either hit the tranny or the exhaust manifold. Maybe someone else has a better method or a properly bent wrench to get a solid grip on that nut…

Disassembly went as easily as Wayne's book says. The machine shop has been helpful - less so the guy at the counter, far more so the guy who does the actual work. For a water damaged engine that the oil pump basically rotted, the machinist and I were pleasantly surprised about the condition of the rest of the engine - it is clean and shows little wear (only 24k miles!). Maybe I didn't need the ~$2000 worth of goodies from Pelican, but "while I was in there" I might as well replace all wear and seal items. I've got one side of the case cleaned and back on the engine stand. Hopefully I'll get the case assembled this weekend. Watch for pictures on Monday – and questions between then as now. Thanks in advance!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109169493.jpg Http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=201186&highlight=%242

Don,

I too am in the process of tearing my 92 964 down. How did you get the power steering pump nut connecting to the cap off?

thanks,
anthony

there is no turning back now, I found it to be a lot of fun, enjoy and take you time.

Jim

Hey Anthony, I'm not sure which nut\cap you are talking about on the power steering pump. The only bolt that was difficult for me was the one holding the belt pully to the cam. If your valves are still riding the cam or the cam chain still connected to the secondary shaft, you sure don't want to turn the cam! In my case, I clamped a small block between the spokes of the pully and she never moved a MM. Send me a PM or start another post so I can keep this one clean for my rebuild progress - sorry, I'm a neat freak.

Anthony, Don't bother with a PM or a new post on your power steering nut question. This is a perfect post for 964/3.6 questions as this a speedy board with great capabilities so there's no need to keep to singular topics as I suggest. Kick me...

Hi Don,
Just in case you don't know this already, be aware that there are a few tools specific to the 964/993 that you will want to acquire or fabricate.
-Chris

Don, I think you answered my question. I am referring to the power steering pulley to the camshaft. Basically, you wedged the block such that the pulley don't move right?

On another note, I see that the cylinder head temp sensor is screwed into the head of cyl #3. How do you get this out as it is recessed in pretty deep.

I am in the process of stripping down to the long block.

thanks,
anthony

Don,

A critical question: what is the temperature in that garage? Wisconsin can get pretty cold.

Yep, I have on loan a couple of tools from a local Pelican (thanks WERK-1), but also purchased the cam holder, z-block and gauge, and some other tools. I hope I have them all, but as Wayne's bible only covers to '89 models and there is no definitive list for models beyond, I might come up short at some point...

As for the temp sensor on the #3 (off memory) head, I left it on and told the shop to be careful of it. I'm guessing a deep, thin walled socket with a groove cut out of it for the wire is what is needed. I've never seen a tool like that, but maybe Pelican can find one or http://www.zdmak.com/ will have one.

Lastly, it's currently 31 degrees outside and a balmy 43 in my garage. The garage is "heated" by the warmth of the house from 2 sides and the morning sun. A small space heater raises the temp pretty comfortably as the walls and ceiling is insulated. The only bonus about the snow and cold is that you can't drive your car so you might as well rip her apart.

The FedEx truck just dropped off 2 boxes from Pelican!!

Hi Doug,
You'll need a little tool for putting the O-rings on the through bolts and you'll need to make a tool for tensioning the chains when you time the cams.
-Chris
Tool P9511:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109259670.jpg

Homemade tensioner tool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109259684.jpg

Don't laugh at my cheap-chuck attitude, but a modified Sharpie marking pen looks like should work instead of the P9511 for installing the o-rings over the thru-bolts - right?

I just pulled the tensioning tool from the Pelican box, and I haven't figured it out yet. Your home-made tool looks perfect. What happens when you remove it and reinstall the factory tensioner? Is there an issue about the chain going slack and the cam moving? I'll me a little more versed later today after I drop the valve seals at the machine shop and get Wayne's book back - I gotta re-read some parts before I start turning wrenches...

Don,
Us Yankees prefer the term "frugal". ;) If you don't laugh at me for being frugal I won't laugh at you for being cheap. :D
As simple as the assembly sleeve P9511 (Porsche part #000.721.951.10) looks, you may need to work a little to duplicate it.
It consists of 2 parts:
Part A: A straight tube with an inside diameter of 11mm and an overall length of ~65mm.
Part B: A cone shaped sleeve that has an inside diameter of 9.9mm and on outside diameter of 10.9mm

The cone protects the O-ring from being cut by the bolt threads.
The "tube" and is designed to slide over the cone shaped part and push the O-ring off the cone and down the shaft into the recessed area where the through bolt nuts go.

This is excerpted from the factory manuals.
O-ring must not be pushed down onto bolt collar (10mm)!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109278820.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109278836.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109278852.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109278866.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109278893.jpg

I got my sleeve tool for $20 including shipping on Ebay back in 2003 but I see that they are over $72 from Pelican so it makes sense to use your brain over your wallet if you can.

I use the tool for pre-964 motors also. I figure every little bit of protection helps and it's even makes things a little easier.
-Chris

But wait, there's more!
 

Don,
This is turning into a bit a of "964 tools post". I hope you don't mind.

This is the tensioner tool (P204) for the pre-964 cars:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109281141.jpg

This is the factory tensioner tool (P9401) for the 964:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109281225.jpg

This is Yankee version (and the O-ring tool mentioned previously):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109281349.jpg

The factory tool is spring loaded and costs over $400. The Yankee version came in under my $3 budget not counting the black paint. :D


While you're at the hardware store picking up the parts for your tensioner tool, pick up some big clear hose. The edge of the spigots (holes that cylinders slide into) are a sealing surface for the cylinder base O-rings so you don't want to put any dings in them. To keep this from happening the factory manual suggests putting a piece of hose around the rods that stick out far enough to hit the edge.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109282335.jpg

-Chris

Wow, that crank is a piece of art! I can't imaging slipping a wrench and nicking one of the bearing surfaces. She's ready to be dropped into the case today. I'm taking to project slow and steady.

Chris Bennet - Thanks for the hints on the tools:
-tubing to protect the rod\case - check!
-homemade case bolt o-ring guide made from a Sharpie pen (just ream out the pen shaft and use the cap to push off the ring) - check
-chain tensioner (steering wheel puller) - check!

-but DUH, only one cam timing chain - must not have changed the quantity from one to two when ordering from Pelican. So much for getting the case sealed up this weekend. I need to do another inventory check!

? Do I need two chain tensioners? The Porsche shop manual shows two, but all manuals explain the process serially - as in one at a time. Does that mean I can get along with only one tensioner, or is it best to have both chains at tension when adjusting each one indivdually?

Heck, I'm delayed a week by the chain, so I have lots of time fabricate one if I need to...

You probably don't need to worry about nicking a bearing surface. The bearing surface is really hard.

Smart thinking on the Sharpie!

You only need one chain tensioner.

I've gotten in the habit of checking the contents when I receive any sort of order. A lot of times I'll order, say, 2 widgets and the box will only contain 1 because the other widget is on backorder or is coming from another warehouse further away.
-Chris

The case is sealed up and torqued down! However, the darn crank seal worked its way out. I must not have had it perfectly straight as when I was tightening the outer bolts I noticed it had slipped out on one side. I completely removed it an now must search for a way to press that baby in. I though about using the double-mass flywheel, but it won't push it to the bottom of the groove. What holds the seal all the way into the groove, or does it just float in the groove? Any thoughts?

I'm off to search the BBS for hints...

The seal just needs to go in flush. I can't remember how I seated it. The seal is a larger diameter than on pre-964 motors so my flywheel seal installer wouldn't work. The miracle of friction holds the seal in.

The case around the seal has a slot in the edge to allow for removing the old seal. The inside (facing the seal) edge of that slot often has a raised burr that will catch the outer edge of the new seal. You can feel it with your finger easily if it is there. I remove the burr with a Dremel after masking the crank with some masking tape. Clean everything up afterwards and oil the crank before installing the new seal.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1109913213.jpg
-Chris

Whew, thanks for the good news. I think I'm going to have to slip the case off the stand to get any tools in there. This link seems to clarify the flywheel seal depth issue and install tools...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93923&highlight=flywhee l+seal

Due to the pitfalls in trying to clamp the seal in the case with all the other issues that need to be attended to in a limited time I am planning on tapping my seal in AFTER the case is together.

Another set of hands might have kept that flywheel seal in place, but tapping it in afterwards was a snap. I can tell you this, it ain't gonna move - ever. Which means it probably won't leak - fingers crossed.

I triple checked my inventory. It seems as though the head gasket set doesn't come with the late model cylinder head gaskets. The kit comes with the aluminium gaskets for the early '70s models, but not the orignal fibre ones I'm busy cleaning out of the revised cylinder groove of the later 964s. I can still get them shipped from Pelican before the weekend, so no time will be lost. I can't wait to get to the long block complete, meanwhile here is a picture of my short block:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110131650.jpg

The 964 gasket kit comes with metal crush rings. The fiber ones were superceded at some point and the factory manual says to use the new metal ones. If you want the fiber ones, Wrightwood Racing still had some last I checked. They are wholesale only but Pelican should be able to get them. I used the fiber ones based on the recommendation of a friend who's built a lot of 911 motors.
-Chris

Obviously my Porsche shop and Bentley Tech data manuals are a bit dated - neither show any head gaskets! The fiber ones were flawless at 24k on my car, but I think I'll go with the latest technology and use the aluminium ones. Do they change the torque spec for the cylinder to case from the 20MN + 90 degrees asmy old manual states? Do I need to apply anything to the gasket and\or groove? I wonder why Optimoly is used in the cylinder bolt threads instead of Locktite...

Optimtimaly is used becuase you are not really concerned about them comming loose, it jsut helps (in the factories opinion) to reach the proper torque? That is my guess anyway...

Jeff

Your guess is correct. Vibrating loose is not an issue with head or rod bolts so loctite is not necessary.

Yikes, those circlips suck, but I managed to push through Sections 4 (P and C) and 5 (Heads and Cams) of "the book." I busted the special Porsche tool, P-9500, on my second clip, then did the rest by hand. My advice, pad your knuckles!

Another hint - do an inventory of the bolts and washers for the cam housing to cylinder head. There are three smaller washers that go on the longer bolts that fit on the exhaust side of each cam housing. If you use one of the smaller washers where a larger one is expected, later you'll be trying to fit a large washer in a small hole - hopefully before you've wrapped up the #4-6 and moved on to #1-3 and your Loctite has cured. So, lay them out at the beginning!

So far so good. Wayne's right, it does start to look like an engine after Section 5!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1111191315.jpg

I gotta watch some hoops (Go Badgers), then I'm going to lay everything out for Sections 6 and 7 (Chains & Rocker and Cam Timing).

Looking good..........

Jeff

Ok, for those of you with power steering on your 964, the gasket kit does not include the case to power steering housing gasket (it's the same three-bolt circular hasket used at the rear of the engine for the case to cam housing). While you're in there, replace the seal and o-ring (oddly this is in the kit). I'm on hold awaiting my gasket and seal....

Is it unusual for this factory stock motor to go from 1 shim behind the left cam spocket and 2 on the right, to 5 on the left and 4 on the right? That's 1.5mm more on one side and 1mm on the other. It seems odd as this engine has basically no wear at 24k miles, and the stock parts are going back in...

Personally, I found measuring sprocket parallelism to be difficult and error prone - until I got the Stomski Racing tool. I think there is a good chance your measurements are in error.

Every 911 motor I've seen had 4 shims on the left and 3 on the right - except one. I've only seen around a dozen so it's not a big sample size.

That one was a 964 motor. It had 2 shims under both sides. That didn't seem right but hey, "Maybe it's a 964 thing" I thought. Sure enough, when I checked/measured it, it took 4 on the left and 3 on the right just like all the other 911 motor I've seen. I know that motor had been apart so I suspect someone lost the 3 shims for the right side and just split the remaining 4 between the both cams.

-Chris

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1111276402.jpg

Chris,

You said you used the fiber ring on the cylinder, based on a recommendatin. What was the reason for not using the steel ring?

I have the steel ring in my gasket kit. Wondering, should I use the fiber one.

thanks,
anthony

I can't remember why he (my mechanic friend) advised the fiber ring.
-Chris

Chris, your explanation makes me feel more confident that there is no unusual wear or a mistake. I put all the shims on one side and the measurement using Stomski setup is nearly within spec. It's amazing how the now 3mm out of spec side noisily rattles the chain, while the spec side is smooth and quiet! A few more shims and she'll be butter. My local dealer doesn't have them in stock, but I'm hoping Kelly Moss Racing has some sitting on the shelf so I can continue working. It's so hard to visit their shop as they have every sort of perfect Porsche there...

Wow, that was a rough and rewarding afternoon. A couple of shims brought the cam sprockets into spec. But then I spent a lot of time scratching my head, reading, turning the crank while watching the #1 and #4 pistons and studying the cams trying to figure out this cam timing thing.

I thought I lost my TDC as just mounted the crank pully shaft which has an alignment pin - but not at TDC! I split my crank pully to clean it and didn't mark TDC on the shaft. But it was easy to watch the pistons hit TDC and then mount the pully with TDC at 12 o'clock.

I still don't understand why the intake valve opens just before TDC while the exhaust valve is still closing (maybe some sort of pressure to draw the air\fuel into the combustion chamber?), but I have timed the cams by the book. I consistently hit 1.22-1.26mm lift at TDC on both #1 and #3 intake valve.

Having the right tools really helped and reading everyone elses posts were a godsend. My chain tensioner is a steering wheel puller I had laying around (Plews Tools 72-269). See it in action below.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1111454286.jpg

Woohoo! Yipeee! Beers for all! My engine is in, and it runs, the oil pressure is at spec and steady as a rock, and best of all, the oil no longer has chunks just a nice shiny glow! So far no leaks...

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO POSTED ON THIS THREAD, I couldn’t have done it without you. Special thanks to WERK-! For use of some tools – I’ll get them back ASAP.

Progress was slow since my last post as I took a week vacation. But once back, I threw myself into the rebuild full bore. After timing the cams, I found two rockers that rocked in way too many directions. My local machine shop didn’t have the bushes, I didn’t want to order a whole set, so I called Henry at Supertech. What a pro. He had the rockers to me exactly when I needed them.

With one valve cover off, I finished mounting in exhaust (oil lines first), then intake. I found it easy to mount or preposition the cruise and AC bracket before the intake assembly – it gets tight in there. It is also easier to install the intake flanges to the head without the intake runners in the way (I still managed to miss one Allen screw that I noticed as I was adding oil). Afterwards, the intake runners go on easy with hose clamps.

My biggest screw up was mounting the pulleys only to realize the belt tensioner\sensor mounts behind the lower pulley. I have now memorized the torque specs for belt installation! If I was adding this step to a book, I’d add it way early, just before the chain install when TDC and the pulley are necessary.

Oh, yeah, another screw up. I pushed in the clutch with the slave disconnected from the tranny. The pressure blew the seal and piston right out of it. As I was waiting for the rocker, and there is such a thing as FedEx’s overnight delivery, it didn’t slow me up.

And my last hint is take\leave the darn alternator\fan assembly off if you are doing an engine only drop\install. There is much more space to angle the motor in place and slide the four bolts into the tranny. Heck, I left the entire exhaust, the side and rear shields. They, along with the electronic, air, oil, fuel and other body to engine connections are easy to make with the engine dropped a few inches (but not too much to stress the tranny mounts)...

In fact, I had so much room, I was able to pull the engine away from the tranny with ease after dropping the bushing that holds the clutch for shaft in place. Thus, I’d suggest plugging the tranny access holes with plastic wrap while you’re working in the area.

In all, I took my time, read the books, asked lots of questions, and didn't hestitate to redo something that I was unsure of.

Pics: Why spend 2 hours cleaning up your heat exchangers when they get covered by an aero panel? …because they look great in pictures like these.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112982149.jpg

Room to spare:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112982520.jpg

IN!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1112982643.jpg

I gotta get back to the garage and refill the oil, mount the heat\cooling shields and the bumper. Then, it’s time to hit the road…

Congratulation!!!!

I am still in the middle of mine. Things are going VERY slowly.

---anthony

I don't know how mty rebuild stacks up to others, but it took nearly 3 months from engine pull to first drive. I didn't make any upgrades, just rebuilt a stock 3.6. With that said, I can't imaging taking less time and still having the same confidence upon turning the starter key. Take your time and enjoy the confidence while driving your Porsche another 100,000 miles!

Congrats on the completion. I know you will enjoy it.

Don, did you notice any issues with those bolts that hold the aux blower on. The threaded inserts on mine rotate so I have to get a needle nose plier in there to hold them.

Also some Porsche mechanics recommend not putting on all those sound baffles as they tend to make the engine run hotter.

I am just about to put my camshafts in. It is slow.

I had no trouble with those rubber mounts on the auxil fan, but I did have trouble witht he identical one on the air filter box. It was best to remove them and lock tight them to the mount then the air box bolt could be easily removed without the entire rubber bushing loosening.

I really cleaned those air panels and I'm wanted to stay stock for my first rebuild, so I mounted them as per factory spec. I can't imaging they do much except keep the air from the cooling fan around the engine while stopped or slow moving.

If you're installing cams, then you are getting close! The assembly seemed to accelerate once the cams are timed. Keep after it - your garage will get noisy sooner than you think!

The word from Porsche people is that the baffles and bottom panel are purely for sound deafening.