2.0 rebuild ? - Page 2

Walko · Walko's Garage

Jack,

I am planning on building two boxes to start with one for what I call the technical tracks ie short straights and low speed corners and the other box for what I call the HP tracks where the straights are long and fast sweeper type corners.

Michael

kenikh · 10-05-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by camgrinder
Depending on where you race, your gearing etc, you might be better off with a GE60 style cam. With the same compresion the engine will make power around 5000 or 5200 rpms and up. If you have some slow speed corners where you race the bigger cams will force you to down shift more.
The GE60 style cam will be like night and day from your E cams.

How would the GE60 run in a 2.0S street motor (idle, etc.)? CR would be ~10.5:1 w/ twin plugs. How do they compare to the stock 'S' cams?

camgrinder · 10-05-2005, 07:14 PM

The GE 60 cam (my DC60) is a little much for a street driven 2.0. The 10.5-1 compression ratio will help the mid range power. In the 5000 to 7800 rpm range the 60 cams have a big advantage over the factory S cams. I prefer my DC40 (Mod-S, GE40) profile for a street driven 2.0 litre. The powerband will be 4000 to 7500 and the idle and low speed driveablity is much better.

snowman · 10-05-2005, 08:10 PM

Michael,

Go with one or the other box. See what happens and you will know what to do next.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

I have seen many rod failures with Carillo rods that were not the fault of the builder. Small ends breaking off.
Talk about catastrophic failure. The whole case gets sawed in half. The only other Porsches rods that I've seen break at the small end were Titanium and those were in 700 hp 935. We all know Ty rods work harden causing failure but what could cause the Carillo rod failure? I don't have an answer but it was troublesome enough for Carillo to redesign their rods.

snowman · 09:45 PM

Carillo rods are still the best there are. Porsche rods are a close second best and In my opinion all others are something less. Nothings perfact or indestructable. One thing Carillo does do is to look into what actually caused the failure. Much of the time its not the rod, but something else that led to the rod failure, eg lack of oil. I have talked to people who have built Porsche engines with Carillo rods that have supposidly failed. Every time, so far, they have admitted to not doing something exactly the way Carillo recommends. EG I have a better way to tighten the rod bolts. So is it Really the fault of the rod??? Carillo certainly isn't in the mode of saving pennys to make a less expensive rod.

Small ends breaking. What did Carillo have to say? Nobodys perfact, but exactly what broke and why? There is no mystery to properly analyzing a broken engine, just time and money to do it right. Redesigning a rod is tacit admission of a problem, but it may also may just be compensation for some other problem. What does one do from an engineering point of view? Fuzzy, non exhistant details on what and why an engine failed, exactly how do you fix a problem like this??

If someone wants you to build the ultimate engine, cost be dammened, what rods will you put in it? I made the choice for my personal engine, Carillo.

http://www.carrilloind.com/pdfs/10777_eprint.pdf

The small end. Is this possibly realted to the small end "problem" http://www.carrilloind.com/tech_archives2.html

cnavarro · 10-10-2005, 06:17 AM

Arrow makes a damn good rod too, on par quality (and price)-wise as Carillo. They use a proprietary alloy that is above chromoly, but i'm not 100% sure if it's like the 300M material being used in extremely high dollar builds. Unfortuneately no one makes a billet 300M rod for Porsches- now that would be awesome.

kenikh · 10-10-2005, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cnavarro
Arrow makes a damn good rod too, on par quality (and price)-wise as Carillo. They use a proprietary alloy that is above chromoly, but i'm not 100% sure if it's like the 300M material being used in extremely high dollar builds. Unfortuneately no one makes a billet 300M rod for Porsches- now that would be awesome.

Seems like LN would be in a good position to start.

cnavarro · 10-10-2005, 06:34 AM

Well here's your chance- my good friend Mike Riechers of R&R Racing Products is considering expanding into doing rods for Porsches. He currently only does custom billet aluminum rods, but being that he's set up for doing lots of one off custom rods, moving to steel is a logical progression. His site is http://www.rrconnectingrods.com. Maybe some well placed phone calls or emails might give him incentive to do so. He has access to 300M, but the material has a wonderful 46 week lead time (I checked last week just for this reason). He's been doing rods for a long, long time....

ErVikingo · 10-10-2005, 07:11 AM

My vote is for Pauters, damn good product!

snowman · 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cnavarro
Arrow makes a damn good rod too, on par quality (and price)-wise as Carillo. .....e.

So why not just buy Carillo??? Proven porduct, available, sort of, and usually dosen't break. From an engine builders point of view, its a no brainer. Whatever breaks probably won't be the rods. And this is not to say that there may not be other rods just as good, its just a fact that Carillo is the gold standard at this point. That makes it a rod builders problem, NOT an engine builders one. The second best must somehow overtake and replace the current gold standard, a very very tough task indeed. Especially in a world where cheeper and better is not a factor, just better.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by snowman
So why not just buy Carillo??? Proven porduct........and so on and so on....yadda, yadda, yadda............

KIND OF A LAST WORD FREAK, AREN'T YOU?

My last word:
Build your 2.0-2.5 race engine with 2.2 factory rods.
Take the $1200 difference and go to driving school and you'll be faster by seconds and that after all is the point.

The rods will never fail and you'll be less likely to over rev the engine which is the cause of most rod failures in 2.0-2.5 race cars anyway.

snowman · 09:46 PM

Yeh, Carillo, Carillo and Carillo.

You are almost certainly correct, for most people a good set of factory rods is as good as gold. But are you really saying that the factory rods are every bit as good as Carillo rods??? I doubt that and for those willing to pay for the best I would not sell them a set of factory rods. or any other rod than Carillo. Most people cannot drive a Porsche or BMW even close to its capability, but they pay for them and they expect the performance they offer. Giving someone less than they are paying for, even if they can't utilize it, is not our choice, its their money afterall. Some even have the capability to use it to the limit.

Thats my last word, unless you respond, in which case I will have to have another word or two. or three, or four.