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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 12
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Titanium Components
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3 restos WIP = psycho
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
Posts: 7,729
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I have heard rumors that titanium rods tend to go oblong more quickly than steel. That's kinda tough to rationalize for anything but a race motor. Considering you can build a short stroke 2.8, 3.0 on a 66mm crank and conventional components that will rev to 8800RPM, this kind of cost for weight saving on the rotational mass seems wasteful.
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- 1965 911 - 1969 911S - 1980 911SC Targa - 1979 930 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 12
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short stroke
Hadn't heard about that rod problem,but these problems are exactly what I am looking for. As for the short stroke thing,I used to sprint a Alfa v6,2.5lit crank with 3 liter pistons giving a great revy 2.8 but I still was slower than a straight 3liter. I'm thinking more about this stuff in a 3.6 but having the revability of say a 3 liter. Personally I am all for low displacement high rev engines but If you don't have to fit into a size class then bigger is better even if it sounds a bit duller.
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You do realize that the stock 993 rods are already ~200g lighter than the rods used on the so called rev meister 2.7RS?
Stock 993 vrams will rev like crazy(when they are not pulling a bloated 993 chassis around), the tach can not keep up w/ the engine ps just kidding about the bloated 993 chassis I do love them ![]()
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Bill Verburg '76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone) | Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes | |
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Licensed User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ....down Highway 61
Posts: 6,441
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Search this forum for 'titanium rods'. there is a lot of info here.
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Registered User
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Bill;
Aren't the 993 rods designed for a 76.4 mm stroke? I wonder how much of the 993 rod's "weight loss" is due to the fact that they are shorter then the 2.7's? In other words it may not be a meaningful comparision since you wouldn't be able to simply replace the rods in a 2.7 (with it's 70.4 mm stroke) with the 993 rods.
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John '69 911E "It's a poor craftsman who blames their tools" -- Unknown "Any suspension -- no matter how poorly designed -- can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving." -- Colin Chapman Last edited by jluetjen; 06-11-2005 at 02:43 PM.. |
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Moderator
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He's been asking about 3.6s in general and 993 in particular
I was not suggesting that 993 rods be used in an earlier engine, they are not compatible. Though the 964 rods are. The 993 rod is .8mm shorter than a 2.4/2.7/3.0/3.2/3.3/3.6(964) rod. For an all out race motor Pauters, Carillios or even the reinforced 993 are used. It would be interesting to see if the Ti 996 pieces could be used, but they are certainly not needed.
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Bill Verburg '76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone) | Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes | |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 12
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Bill is right ,I have been thinking about the 3.6 v ram. I don't even have a car yet , just want to make sure I buy the right stuff first time around and not put money where its not needed. Getting a long wish list together. Basically I want a 70's look road car that i can enter road rallys and super sprints with. I like the idea of a bit of a sleeper so no tails or huge flares , oh except for a raceing stripe!! Definatly want perfect engineering and presentation. This forum has an amazing wealth of knowlege and I totally appreciate all of you advice. I would say I have about 12 months before getting out my cheque book.
Regards Tim |
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Moderator
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If the 102mm p/c are out, I would still rec. RS valves(both I/E) and Cup or RS cam, 964 cam drive, stock hyd lifter for street use, solids for track, Arp or Raceware rod bolts, 993tt head studs. Custom chip, burned on a dyno.
pretty much everything else can stay stock. Valve springs retainers etc are nice but not needed for street use.
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Bill Verburg '76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone) | Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes | |
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Not neccessary for street use. Race motors yes. So it depends on what you are going to do with the car.
Regards,
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Bernard |
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,502
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My thoughts:
Jim Newton built a car for one of his customers that has kicked serious butt in every race it's been in, using "S" rods. While Ti is certainly cool factor, the cost of the rods is several thousand dollars more than steel rods. The galling limtations of Ti, and ovality after a few hours, are also drawbacks. If you are setting a world record (911R) or trying to win Le Mans (935) and competing with world class drivers and factory teams, every little bit counts. If you are just trying to beat some dentist you can save the money.
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) |
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: montreal, Canada
Posts: 337
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Quote:
All info will be appreciated. Michel Richard |
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what? me worry?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wantagh, NY
Posts: 6,965
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center drill the crank,
have the throws ground and use Clevite NASCAR bearings. We can shift at 8500, and with the other mods to the valve train, the crank guy and cam guy say we are safe shifting at 8500
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 12
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Ti
Iteresting reading, obviously all the Ti maufacturers say there product out lasts any thing on the planet so its interesting to read how rods go out of shape and I bet the coil springs sag to. The oposite of what they say. The mix of 98% road to 2% track leads me to another Question. All about making my investment last and also be fun to use.
If you were driving in the sydney to london rally , via some of europes race tracks,and you needed to drive home again , how would you build your engine?? Because this is what most of us want out of our engines isn't it? |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 4,547
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I think a lot has to do with public misperception and the particular alloy used.
A couple of examples of the difference of opinion: From another thread - 'Ti cracks easily and shouldn't be used in stressed applications', but the Russians use Ti as the pressure hull material for their attack submarines (a bit of a stressed application). - Even the con rod issue seems to have totally different sides - some say the rods don't last longer than a race rebuild, but Porsche is currently using them in their current GT-3 customer road car. Regards, Andrew M
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1970 911E - track / weekend car 1970 911S - under restoration 1986 930 Slant Nose - fun car |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 6,992
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Quote:
![]() ![]() Without going into details, extended, RELIABLE operation at or above 8000 RPM requires some special parts and a LOT of extra preparation. Engine component stresses build logarithmically with RPM. Its not a linear relationship as I've discovered over the past 30 years of racing 911-based engines.
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Steve Weiner Rennsport Systems Portland Oregon (503) 244-0990 porsche@rennsportsystems.com www.rennsportsystems.com |
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