Guys,
The discussion is heating up!! I should say that I don't intend on doing EFI right now. I was more interested in the possiblity of doing it down the road as a maybe thing. In all reality by the time I want more I think my next project will be a 96-97 Turbo which means I would probably have to sell this one. The real question is how much will I lose by not having matching numbers when I sell. I know that at least 50% of the people would not check that since I wouldn't advertise it as a numbers matching all original car. The question is what about the people that will. What would it do to the resale for them? $5k, $10k or would they simply pass the car up (probably). I really like the setup Henry put together and I think he really listened to who I am and what I want from the car. With that in mind I think he is suggesting the right mods. The only thing left for me to decide is if I really need the matching case numbers.

It comes down to a choice between 3.4 matching numbers and 3.5 no match.

BTW: It would be an exchange for my 3.3 case +$.

No heat here!

Just a discussion between 2 Porsche guys with different philosophies.

Henry is well know for doing things old school, and he's damn good at it, stick with what works.

On the other hand I bought my 930 specifically to build into a 600HP go-cart. You can't get there without EFI. And several EFI experts will disagree with Henry's opinion on EFI, it can be made to work well. It's comes down to the components and execution.

I can appreciate old school also, 20 years ago I built a 2.7RS replica from a '72 2.4T with MFI. Which was a blast to drive. As Henry stated, some guys can enjoy 180HP. But why buy a turbo when a N/A car will do? Quite simply, some of us love the kick in the pants that 600HP can deliver. Like I said, 2 different philosophies.

By the way, speaking of 'Old School' sitting in the garage next to my 930 is my '64 Jag E-type roadster undergoing a slow restoration, it will be 100% stock, except for maybe a solid-state conversion on the distributor in place of points......I can appreciate old school.

Ask 10 engine builders, get 10 opinions, everyone is entitled to theirs.

You can't get your money out of Modified Porsches. I know of a couple Turbos for sale with 600+HP with a complete laundry list of all the best components, build by well know turbo gurus. Probably well in excess of $40K in mods over the price of the car, they're asking around $50K.

If you plan to eventually sell this car, why waste money? Stick with the 3.3 case and just enjoy the thing. That's what it is really all about!

Wise words.,cheers,Antonio.

Infrared Camera quote:
" I think I want to go with bigger P&C (as VICHANG said "theres no substitute for cubes") for power not just for replacement. It has come to the following configuration
Carrera cams
3.5 p&c
3.6 case
shuffle pin case
port intake 38mm
port heads
Oil pump
hipo clutch
new k27 7200 turbo

I think this is a good sound build for a CIS smog legal drivable car possibly around 370HP.

The discussion wasn't about what you (WinRice) want, Randy asked you guys what he should do based his stated criteria.
Opinions do very but let's stick to the flavor of the original question. There is no way we get to EFI using his stated criteria no matter how much Antonio cheers
.
BTW: EVER TRY TO JAM 600HP THROUGH A CATALYTIC CONVERTER?

I will keep cheering for EFI systems, I like my electricity served by Nuclear power rather than Carbon power!,cheers,cheers,cheers,Antonio.

I probably should not have mentioned EFI. I really have no desire right now to go to EFI (unless of course I can get that Porsche Nuclear Reactor that Antonio is talking about Part#91.046.nuke).
My main concern is in resale value with the case being changed. I wanted more HP but my only hesitation is the resale value issue. When I want to go bigger I am going after a 97 Twin Turbo and I will have to sell this one to do it. I think I should probably do all I can with my stock 3.3 case to squeeze every drop out of it and keep the numbers straight.
Maybe
3.4 P&C
Custom CAM
Port Intake
Port Heads
Oil Pump
HIPO Clutch
NEW K27 7200
Maybe bump the boost to .8

The stock car out of Porsche is supposed to produce 320HP. I wonder what I could get with the above mods? Maybe in the 340-350 range? I think I could live with that. Especially considering that my car was running on 5 cylinders with two of the 5 remaining having broken rings! I would think that a stock rebuild would still be a major difference. I plan to talk it over with Henry on Monday and see if he has any other suggestions with me keeping the stock case. If anyone out there has a need for an engine builder I would not hesitate to recomend Henry at Supertec. It has been great working with him so far.

Heres my engine with two cylinders removed.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1128265165.jpg

Here is a picture of the transport (German Sandwich.)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1128265468.jpg

That's a great sandwich and the Porsche is the ham!!it taste great!!cheers and good luck,Antonio.

I would think that with a 3.4 - 8 to 1 compression, decent cams - k-27 or better turbo, c2 intercooler - even with CIS - with Henry as your builder you should be close if not over 340 rwhp (391 fwhp)

I agree; I think your list sounds good, InfaredCamera.

Ham...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nice, solid, conservative build!

If you choose to sell, it shouldn't sway buyers by much, and a few might even appreciate it.

If you choose to keep it and want more power, you have a solid foundation to build from.

Give us a report when it's finished!

Check it out the dirty bastard
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1128354472.jpg

Soon he will be clean, mean and serene..

When I sold my car, I got approximately $2000 over a stock car. So put $10,000 in the engine and suspension and sell for $2000? Re-sale is not why we do these rebuilds. Get it back together, put it on the street or track, nail the throttle, and then try to wipe the smile off of your face.

I agree I am not doing the rebuild for resale. I am doing it because it needs to be done. I do have to consider this factor however. I will probably drive this car for a year or so and then try to sell and move up to a 97 twin turbo. I think this is the very best of the Porsche Turbos. This is after all the end result of all air cooled 911 cars. 400+HP stock. I am curious what you all think of this car? Vote now, what is your favorite turbo? Anyone know of a 97 Twin Turbo available for around $50k? Low miles and very clean of course.

Skipping ahead to the next project, what would you do to a twin turbo? 600HP+?

I see from some of your earlier posts you are or were considering a 3.5 displacement. This is done with 100 mm cylinders -- not with a change of engine case. However, it's my understanding that these conversions are a bit risky, as the 3.5 cylinders are thinner and not as robust. I'm sure Henry can tell you all about this, but the "conservative" choice (if you must replace your P/Cs) would be to go with a 3.4 (98 mm) set, which just plugs into your case with no mods. They have a reputation for being long lasting and reliable.

I think the idea of the 3.6 case was so that we didn't mod the 3.3 case. In either case I am going with the 3.4's on my stock 3.3 case. I will post some more images when there is some good clean stuff to look at.

Sounds like a good plan, especially if you want it to look stock for the smog testing.

The best way to build a 3.5 liter engine is to take a 3.6 case and (100 mm) cylinders, machine the 3.3 turbo heads to fit the stud spacing and use the 3.3 (74.4) crank. The 3.6 na forged pistons can be machined to create any comp. ratio you desire. This gives you the good counter weighted crank, thick 100 mm cylinders and good Turbo heads. In short the best of both worlds.

BTW: the quote (for this mod) was the same as the cost difference from 3.3 to 3.4 Ps & Cs alone.

The best way to build a 3.5 liter engine is to take a 3.6 case and (100 mm) cylinders, machine the 3.3 turbo heads to fit the stud spacing and use the 3.3 (74.4) crank. The 3.6 na forged pistons can be machined to create any comp. ratio you desire. This gives you the good counter weighted crank, thick 100 mm cylinders and good Turbo heads. In short the best of both worlds.

Henry,

Really? I hadn't considered your plan for a 3.5, and I like the sound of it, but you mean to say that you'd quote a 3.6 case, machined heads as you described, a set of 100 mm cyls and 3.6 na pistons for the same price as a new set of 3.4 p/c's? (Which cost, what, about $3100 or so?) I would think we'd be talking about at least double or more the cost for your build, and it would be financially out of the realm of possibility for most customers.

3.4 Ps & Cs retail for well over $4000. And yes the quote was the same either way.
I guess some Porsche owners have been so abused by shops that charge for the "mystery not the reality" that they struggle with the concept of a mechanic that offers quality work at a fair price.