TEC3r software help
 

Is anyone familiar with the TEC3r software, v 3.3.9? Specifically, the idle page? Clewett is having a difficult time explaining how it works, so he is not a good source. Otherwise the car is back to normal.
Thx

Don,

How is your cold start. I can not get my car to start cold without touching the gas and taking the risk of flooding the car.

Mine does not idle right either.

Thanks

Ed

Cold start is fine.

I called Nick at Electromotive today about the new software. Here is what he said - " I haven't figured it out yet either". Nick is the tech support for Electromotive. He is a hell of a nice guy and helpful, but he said if I can't get his recommended settings to work, call back and we'll get the software designer on the phone with him who is responsible for that software upgrade.

You are welcome to call me so I can give you specific info I have learned lately about the new software. If interested, email me at 930turbo@mindspring.com

Are you happy with the Tec3r overall? Or would you recomed something else.
I am looking to go with a ITB setup and would like to know if there is anything else I sould look at.

Regards, Kenneth

Since I have only worked with the TEC3r, I can only tell you what I like and don't like about it. I can not compare it to other makes.

Likes:

> installation was easy - good instructions
> nice neat package (ECU, coils, harness, etc)
> good user interface - windows based, on the fly programming, tuning wizard, datalog capable
> price

Dis-likes:

> on-screen help for tuning is horrible - poorly written/explained
> tech support is OK, but they must not communicate internally since there is frustration about their product internally
> sensor problems - i've been thru 2 crank sensors - my cam sensor is a Hall Effect, but i have to set it as magnetic in the software....
> the ECU locked up the first week I had it - had to send it back
> the AMP connectors on the ECU did not mate properly, causing the car to die 30 min into a drive

The best piece of advice I could give you or anyone, is to find a good Porsche mechanic who is very familiar with a particular brand of EFI, and go with their recommendation. This way you have someone close by you can rely on to give guidance and advice. I completely recommend installing it yourself and tuning it yourself, as you learn a lot about your car and its performance. However, experience from the mechanic is invaluable and will save big money and lots of time- make sure you pay him/her for their time/experience.

In hindsight, I would probably go with an Autronic or Motec because so many more Porsche people use these units and assistance is easier to get.

Hey,

Thats funny, mine locked up too and I had to send it back too.

Ed

Well it locked up again today. I was at a gas station uploading a new table when the LED went red and there I was. I had to be towed and Electromotive said send it to them and our next unit (yet to be developed!) will not do that.

So, I am actively looking for a replacement for the TEC3r.

Don, give Wayne a call at DTA systems.,excellent efi.,cheers,Antonio.

We sell Haltechs

They seem to work very well, and the software is very user friendly

the "Tec" series always seemed to give us headaches

Thanks

I was told to consider FAST and DTA too.

Comments?

I cant comment on FAST or DTA, I have no experience with those systems

I do know Tec is not user friendly

Haltech powered car on a warmup lap

The TEC-3 is my choice for engine management systems. It's inexpensive (relatively), there is good support for it (through Rick), and it seems to have good support from Electromotive.

That said, this new TEC-3r system may be problematic - I know the older TEC-3 system was pretty much bulletproof.

-Wayne

All my research points to Autronic (if Motec is out of budget) which is what I'll be using.

So what I'm gathering is that the latest revision of the TEC3 is still a little buggy?

I was planning on going with this.

What is the biggest difference between Motec, Autronic, Haltech, and TEC3r?

Motec is pretty much the mac daddy of EFI. It has all the features (you can pay to activate them anyway) and can control just about anything. It's very reliable and very expensive. The only thing better is the super high dollar stuff like on CART cars. They have a good US website where you can get plenty of info. This would be my choice if money was not an option.

Autronic was created by an ex-Motec employee and is supposed to be reliable and easy to use. It also has lots of features. The standard SMC is about $2000. They have a pretty good website. I haven't heard anything bad about them.

Electromotive seems to be user friendly, but I keep hearing stories like Don's which make me wonder. It also seems to be less than reliable. The ignition ignitors which get hot are in the ECU may be cause for concern. Not on my list of options.

I haven't heard much about Haltech, DTA, etc which is why I took them off my list. I would like to hear from several people about an ECU before I would use it.

If you want to drive individual coils, make sure the ECU can do it. Same goes for A/C, boost, etc.

Here are my frustrations with the TEC3r:

> software recognizes my cam Hall sensor as a mag sensor
> ECU locked up twice - one was my fault
> idle software does not work well, and help is poorly written
> decel software poorly written, inconsistent results
> acceleration fuel enrichment does not work in 1st gear (Nick at Electromotive said he has this problem on his in 3rd gear) - no fix
> AMP harness connectors did not mate properly to ECU

And last but certainly not least, there are NO good instructions or explanations on how the different components of the software work or work together.

If I can find a system that can use the Electromotive DFU's, the GM sensors and the Siemens injectors, while providing on the fly tuning, sequential injection, datalogging and windows interface, I will change the ECU.

No one mentions FAST ECU's. Is there a reason? I spoke to the company on Fri (while sitting in my car, waiting for a tow), and they said they cater to forced induction engines. In addition, the rep in the SE US, is their national turbo specialist.

Hi Don,

So your ECU just locks up and you can't do anything but send it in? Wow.

Here is my take on the DTA Pro8.

I think it is a fine reliable mid priced ECU. There are some things that I don't like about it.

The idle control isn't very good. It might be that I have a defective idle control valve . My idle is low when cold.

The lambda control is screwy. It just doesn't work very well. It wants to lean the motor out more than it should.

I think the DTA is a great ECU for racing where you don't idle much or need lambda control.

The interface with Windows SUCKS. DTA blames Microsoft. Really now.

I will try Autronic next time to see if it does any better than the DTA.

BTW, I have had one failure. My POS Electromotive crank sensor ***** the bed and I needed a tow. I am going to replace the sensor with a Ford unit so that doesn't happen again.

I have heard that FAST is on a lot of Hondas and V8s.

Good luck
Dean

I guess is a matter of tuning.'cause I haven't have none of these problems with my set up (993TT), I love the traction control feature of the DTA,that is why I decided to try it, also I use to have in this particular engine a TEC3r with no particular issues with it.,cheers,Antonio.

Wayne, no offense, but your comments fly in the face of a lot of stuff i have read about the Tec. Even this thread says that the original poster could not good help from Clewett. I have seen lots of other comments from others that electromotive is not very good with support either. I sure do not want an ecu that "Locks up".

I have been trying to decide between ITB's and PMO's for my 3.4 build and quite frankly the tunning hassles reported by folks here make me lean towards carbs. ....

Cheers,

Jeff:

Obviously everyone has their preferences regarding ECU's. I have no affiliation with Electromotive, but I've had my unit for a year, and haven't had any issues related to my hardware. I've had issues related to the tuning that was programmed into the unit, but not the hardware itself.

But I have a friend who has had issues with his car (not a TEC3, another ECU) and he continues to say that the next engine he builds will be a carb based car. Until the day he bolts the carbs on the car I will fight tooth and nail to convince him to use EFI. The benefits I have had with it are simply incredible, and I haven't even tuned mine fully yet.

I have about 3000 track miles now on my engines using my TEC3, and haven't had an issue yet personally, while I know Don and others have. But for me, I went from CIS to EFI and I could never think of going back now. Just like I couldn't imagine going back to a carb based setup.
My EFI conversion is the most favorite improvement I've made to my car overall.

Brian

Brain, thanks. I just don't know if I am into a loooooong tuning process. The carbs are a "quick and dirty" solution coupled with a crankfire ignition (the one I am considering is an electromotive product)
I like what I have read about Autronic with its self learning autotune mode, and I have gotten great info from a fellow Pelican about Haltech...... But dyno time is expensive around here. Am I going to need dyno time or can it be done on the road?

Are you using ITB's or a 3.2 manifold?

Cheers,

I took the EFI101 class and we tuned a car in about an hour. Much quicker than carbs. After that you might check it again in different weather to confirm all's well or after other mods that could change the AFR or timing requirements. Tuning was so simple you almost feel stupid for taking the class, but I would still recommend it. I wouldn't mess with autotune features and you must have a dyno that can hold load.

Hmmm cool, thanks. Apologies to DonE as my rambling does not really hekp him at all1 :)

Cheers,

catca - no worries.

I spoke to two people at electromotive today and explaned the problem again. I also told them to expect the unit at their facility in the morning. They said they will unlock the unit and test it for a bad "crystal". If its bad, they will call me and discuss my options. In fairness to Electromotive, I will give them every opportunity to fix the unit. I also explained the bugs, and they said that the unit is most likely causing the problem.

Lets see...

Looking forward to the updates, good luck.

cheers

Electromotive called me yesterday and told me that they found a bad processor, crystal and a loose connection within the unit, that relates to the general purpose input, normally used for the O2 sensor. Hmmm... Sounds like a possible recipe for detonation and engine damage.

Anyway, when they told me they would fix it - I said no, please replace the unit. The tech said he has done this hundreds of times before and he can handle it. I then called R Clewett and asked him the intervene. A little later, the tech called me and said he would do me a favor and replace the unit.

So lets see if it can hold an idle, provide the proper AFR in all four gears, decel correctly, and on and on.....

DonE - Did you press the Electromotive to do a complete diagnostic test on the replacement unit? Given the multiple component failures that your unit had, seems there is a question of whether they do sufficient, if any burn in and testing of the final unit. Of course, the same final test question would apply to 'fixing' the unit... I'm not seeing why a 'fixed' unit would be any less reliable than a 'new' replacement unit. The problem apparently is in their testing of components, assembly process and final unit burn-in and testing.

Considering I took delivery from Clewett a few weeks ago of the complete and very expensive Electromotive Tec3 package, and I won't be doing the installation for what now appears to be a long time, do to what has turned out to be a very slow chassie up rebuild process, is giving me a bad case of the queasies...

Please continue to update.

Jim

Yes, I asked them to burn it in. Didn't think anyone else used that term anymore.

Of course, I also asked them to ship it to arrive today (Fri) so I could install and test this weekend - they said no problem to that as well. Well it's 8:22pm - what was I thinkin......

You can't do a 100 hour burn in in 24 hours. But multiple component failures isn't normal, no matter what burn in is done. Seems like a botched assembly job to me.

What's the Latest
 

Don - Any recent developments?

Don:

Are you having the TEC3 control your fuel delivery based on O2 settings. I can't remember if thats closed loop or open loop.

If you're not setting up the TEC3 to deliver fuel and shoot for a certain Air Fuel Ratio based on the O2 readings, then why would the loose connection for the General Input for the O2 sensor have caused any issues with the engine running? just a question?

The way I read one of you previous posts in this thread it made it sound like the General Input #4 problem assisted in causing your engine troubles? But that could only happen if you had the TEC3 determining fuel delivery based on that input. Am I making sense? Or did I misunderstand your previous post????

Brian

Brian

My TEC3 can run in either closed or open, as you know. I tune the VE table without the O2 connected to the system, however I use the O2 sensor (stand alone system) to tune the AFR. Make sense? Once the numbers are close, then I use the O2 in a closed loop to fine tune the numbers. It's quite possible that the O2 connection within the TEC3 was sending info to lean out the AFR under demand conditions.

I got the TEC3 back yesterday and put it in the car. There is a big difference right from the start. The idle is stable - almost rock solid. Cruise is very stable, but off accel is dicey - I think I can tune that better. Cold start worked good this morning. So, my update is, so far, so good.

Don, keep us posted on your progress & good luck.

My engine is coming apart (blew it on track chasing a GT3 :)) and I'm going EFI as well so would love to hear all different experiences.

update

I've had the ECU in the car for a little over a week now. Big difference using an ECU that really works... I've figured out how to set most of the parameters for idle, VE, O2, start, accel, decel and so on. So, it off to the dyno on Thur to see what kind of power I am laying down. Then we'll see what kind of designer, builder and tuner I am....

Good luck. My experience with the people at electromotive is good. They seem to know what they are doing. Hope they keep up with their rep and continue to do well into the future.

Update

The system has a problem with the IAC control and then started giving me a short-to-ground error. While diagnosing the problem, I messed around with a couple of the settings and uploaded the bin file. Thats when it froze up - this will be the 3rd time to send it back to electromotive.

So, everything electromotive is coming out of the car next weekend. Don't know what will be the replacement, but I will be happy to get rid of this junk.

That is too bad, drop TimT a line. They sell Haltech and he has provided me tons of info to help with my descions. Real good guy.

Cheers

Sorry to hear about this, what a pain in the a$$.

To change the subject: Don, I sent you a PM about your intercooler but haven't heard from you.

I'm about to build my full bay intercooler and I'm wondering if you would do anything different if you built another. I talked to Bell and they faxed me a drawing of an intercooler they could make for me. It looks suspiciously like yours. I'm trying to decide if I want to go with 3.5 or 4.5 inch thich core.

I'm also working on the EFI plumbing. Did you run the fuel rails in series or parallel? Did you use a fuel damper?

Thanks and good luck with the ECU. FWIW, I suggest Autronic.

Thanks

Sorry I missed your PM - I'll answer it.

I got a drawing from (I think) Brian Keith Smith and sent it to Bell. When talking to Bell, they said they didn't have the smaller core I originally wanted, so I went with the larger and am glad I did. Both pro tuners that worked my tuning really liked the design, fit and function. And couldn't beat the price. I can confidently say I wouldn't change this component of my build.

I am using the stock 3.2L fueling system - damper, regulator, filter and stock 930 pumps. The stock system is parallel. I used this system because it works and bolts right up. The feed lines however are steel braided lines I made up.

Most likely, it will be motec or autronic. All I need are firm quotes right now - I sent out email requests for quotes tonight.