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Kolibri
 
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Orlando FL
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New Rebuilder -> Started today. Need ADVICE

Ok. I have just spent $2500 in parts and services for my engine project. ITs a 70 2.2T with rods and crank for a 2.4. Spent about $4 K on the engine in total.
I bought new :
Viton Gaskets
ARP rod bolts
Bearings main & rod
Rings
Pistons / Cyls 2.2E ( PO bought these )
3 Angle Valve job, new Guide$, New Intake and Exhaust Valve$
Reground Cams ( E )
New or reground rockers all 12
Ramps, chains etc
Solid Tensioners
New Oil lines, cam lines
Rebushed Zeniths
Powder coated Engine Tin
etc etc

Ok./
SO, following Wayne's book, I got a inside micrometer to check for the crank bores to be out of round. Wayne and Walt from CE both said that Mag cases are notorious for the bores warping out of alignment. So I set my inside mic to 2.44 inches, because that is what 62mm coverts to. But that must be WITH the bearings in place, cause the bores are more like 2.6 inches. You might be thinking, someone has bored this case out, but the old bearings are std.

ANy help? I don't want to spend the $500 for a std cut line bore, but I want to do this right. What is everybody else doing?

Advice? Correct measurement?


Michael
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Old 09-27-2005, 02:49 PM
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Who cleaned the case and did your valve job? It is my understanding that line bore is not a simple measurement without the right tools. Did they too not recommend a line bore?

I would call my machinist. If you need a referral, there are good sources in OTown.

But most importantly, I want to say good luck. I would continue with the research, and "know before you go". Consider whether, you are on the slippery slope, and if so what is another $1500?

Regards,
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Bernard
Old 09-27-2005, 05:29 PM
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Kolibri
 
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TroySport sent my heads out to his most trusted machine shop.
The problem is that it cost me an unbelievable amount that I don't even want to write down here

I trust him, but I can't afford to pay a middle man for every step. I had a machine shop hot-dip the case. It's that deep gray black color, but you could eat off of it. Spray carb cleaner in there or anywhere- rub- and you get nothing. I plan to spend the usual 3 hours working it over. Can recommend a good machine shop that knows porsche that can be trusted?

I don't mind spending the money to have it done right and I know that it needs the oil bypass surgery, so a trip to the right shop sounds perfect. I KNOW Walt can do it, but it'll cost me to ship it in both directions.

Please refer away!

Michael
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1940 Zündapp KS 600
1941 Zündapp KS 750
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:40 PM
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Michael,

I just had Walt do my 2.7L mag case. I won't tell you it was cheap or quick, but the peace of mind when it is all done is worth it. You are going to be spending some money on this rebuild, don't go half way on the case. My vote is to have an experienced machine shop take a look at it. The shipping cost is minimal in the overall scheme.

Rex
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Old 09-28-2005, 04:25 AM
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http://jbracing.com/

They're in Tavares, about 45 minutes from you. While you're there, take a trip across the parking lot and see if you can get a tour of Alex Job Racing's shop.
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:31 PM
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You bet Jbracing rocks. Tell Mike I mentioned his name.

First thing I did was (what I know now is called) polish outside. First thing he did was turn it dark grey. lol. Let's put it this way-looks good.

p.s. On another 3.2 he did for me, I eat COBRAs (at least until the Punta Gorda bridge 9sunrise)nearly ended[Why I saw a COBRA blk at Sebring and I like the way it sounded{so I knew}]plus he passed me with a blip) where I made sure he had enough lanes to not back up, but my peripheral saw a little red. I did not red-line it and mine goes way past red line.

I'll pm you when I get back to Otown

Good Luck.

Regards
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Bernard
Old 09-29-2005, 04:09 AM
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Kolibri
 
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Im taking my case down there.. So are yo usaying NOT to polish up the outside? I haven't touched it I'll let you guys know what they say!

Thanks!
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1941 Zündapp KS 750
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Old 09-29-2005, 04:14 AM
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You could, maybe later though. I t is going to look good. I would paint the engine compartment (no matter how much you clean it you would prefer if had painted it), as that would give you an impeccable final detail.

Good luck!
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:55 PM
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Wayne's right. For a couple hundred bucks it go anywhere in Florida.

Hey Wayne. Nice pics. I appreciate you posting such a large number of them too.

Regards,
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BReyes

Hey Wayne. Nice pics. I appreciate you posting such a large number of them too.

Regards,
No sweat. Not sure which of the 25,000 pics I've taken over the past four years your referring to, but I'll assume all of them!



-Wayne
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Old 10-02-2005, 12:09 AM
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Kolibri
 
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Sounds good. I have had Walt do everything else for my car ( except the heads ), so i will ship him the case!


I knew this was the right thing to do. I don't know why I fight it. I guess I keep imagining that this project won't put me in the poor house. WRONG hehehe

Thanks guys,
I'll be back when my case comes back from Walt.
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Old 10-02-2005, 04:06 AM
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Kolibri
 
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One more thing. A shop here said that I should have my case timecerted and new studs put in since the case is mag. I thought it was only the bigger displacement engines that had "pulled stud" issues? My studs are all intact, w/ no VISIBLE sign of pulling. SHould I just let Walt decide what's best?

THanks again.... the saga continues
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Old 10-02-2005, 04:11 AM
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If you trust he has your best interest. You bet!

Regards,
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Old 10-02-2005, 04:45 AM
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I wouldn't exactly compare JBRacing with Maaco. Just because they don't get all the press that competition does, does not mean they are inferior. They are definitely a first class shop, and I am sure they could take the pepsi challenge with anyone.
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Old 10-02-2005, 05:43 AM
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BK, it seems on this forum everyone here thinks the only people who know anything are people on the left coast. I am sure Walt and the rest of the west coast gurus are great, but Jim Higgs at JB Racing has an impeccable reputation here in Florida.
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Old 10-02-2005, 05:57 AM
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Kolibri
 
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Ok.. I spoke to both Walt and Jim. Seems that both hold central poistions, and are considered authorities, in thier fields. There are TWO different schools of thought on warped main bearing bores. Walt & Wayne back the concept of cutting the case and resizing the bores back to factory, just as the rods are resized. JB Racing and others seem to think that one should simply find a new core to work with. Wayne literally wrote the book on the subject, but few shops do the line bore out here ( none that I can find ). I just want my engine to be as close to perfection as one can get, because I'd like to keep it for ever. I don't think JB Racing is the MAACO of racing endeavors. But Wayne KNOWS Walt does top notch work. And the West is typically more progressive when it comes to research, developement and implementation of new technologies. So Walt might be a pioneer in case technology?? Maybe I'll just flip a coin.

Michael
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Old 10-02-2005, 06:25 AM
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Are you using the 70T case? Unless you have an emotional attachment to your case, you may want to consider using another one. I know it sucks after all the time and money you put into cleaning it up, but like you said, you're looking at the long run. I'd be looking for a 72/73 3R at the very least. They are stronger than the 70/71 1R cases, but not as strong as the 73 7R cases. But with the engine you are building, a 3R case should be fine.

You can always make a pretty cool looking coffee table!

But the 1R cases were fine with the 180hp 2.2S's, which is about where you'll be hp wise.

Has the case had the piston squirters added? Oil bypass mod?
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Old 10-02-2005, 09:15 AM
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Kolibri
 
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No attachment! I will toss that thing to the curb. I want an engine.. period..
I'll post a WTB on the board.

Michael
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1940 Zündapp KS 600
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Old 10-02-2005, 10:52 AM
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Okay, a couple of things here.

First of all, cutting and enlarging the bores on the case is only the first part - you then need to buy oversized bearings, which can be very, very, very expensive these days. Last time I checked, it was cheaper to have the case properly resized.

Second, I recommend that all the mag cases have the Case-Savers (not Time-Certs) installed. If your engine overheats, then you will have pulled studs (like the engine in the Rebuild Book). Installing the Case-Savers is the way to go if you're rebuilding the engine. Also have the inner case stud that pulls all the time replaced too.

Thirdly, there really are no good used cases out there. They are all manufactured out of magnesium, and they are basically all warped from the heat cycling of the engine. So finding a good used one is really not a viable option...

-Wayne
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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series101 Projects for Your Porsche 911How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 • SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 10-03-2005, 01:46 AM
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