#3 another predict the RWHP 993 engine.

[ted]

Another 993 guess the RWHP and Torque Dyno power.
Just for fun this time.
Happy guessing!
I’ll post the results after the weekend.

Guess is for PEAK rear wheel HP and Torque numbers
Dyno test to be done in 4th gear.

The dyno is located at the Dyno shop in San Diego.
Here is the car it goes in.

For the engine…
1995 993 3.6 engine.

Custom chip we actually will try 3 chips.
To keep it simple just guess what you think the PEAK HP and Torque with the best chip will be.
I will share the results of all 3 chips.

1st a "performance chip" a buddy gave me in a dark alley.
2nd Weltmiester chip.
3rd Then with a custom chip tailored on the Dyno specific for this engine.

100 octane Sunoco unleaded gas.
Stock compression.
Stock induction and jet hot coated headers with 2 into 1 open pipe.

Super cup cams with 964 style cam gears and RSR solid rockers.
Very light intake blending, stock size valves.
Heavy duty valve springs and titanium retainers.

Carrillo rods

Adjustable fuel regulator.
Nology wires and coil amplifiers.

Dowel pins installed in the case

Windage mods, boat tailed case and cylinder bases and piston skirts cut.

Everything has been balanced
Light weight flywheel and Center Force clutch.

Piston tops and the valve face surfaces received heat barrier treatments.
The Piston sides received a Teflon treatment.
The Valve springs and retainers received a Cyro treatment.

[ted]

Let me add John Dougherty (Pelican handle of camgrinder) made these cams,
from our stock cams.
So you know they are right!

[DW SD]

SWEET! 310HP, 250 ft lbs.

Good luck!

Doug

[ted]

I will tell you the no name dark alley chip made...
Peak rwhp 267 at 6500RPM and peak torque of 224 from 4300RPM to 5900RPM.
I was slightly underwhelmed by those figures...
I had run 4 track days with this chip.
In that configuration the car didnt have much for the hot rod 3.2 911s on the straights.

[DW SD]

HMMMM...What kind of dyno do they have? There is a big discrepancy in dynos, as you know. Had you dynoed any other motors there? Just knowing how they compare would be helpful.

Have you swapped the other chips, yet? OR are you going to?

Doug

[ted]

Originally posted by DW SD
HMMMM...What kind of dyno do they have? There is a big discrepancy in dynos, as you know. Had you dynoed any other motors there? Just knowing how they compare would be helpful.
Have you swapped the other chips, yet? OR are you going to?
Doug

Its a Dyno Dynamics Dynamometer from Australia.
This shop has several but Jae always uses the same one.
To calibrate your guesses Jae has had a factory 95 993 Super cup car on the same wheel dyno, it made 296rwhp.
Another buddy had his V ram 3.6 on it and then ran it a week later in Los Angles on another wheel dyno. His results on both were within 5 hp. So it appears this dyno is not reading exceedingly high or low.

Yes I am the Alex Trubec (Alex should look even smarter, he's holding all the answers) of this Dyno game as I did run all 3 chips yesterday morning.

[DW SD]

Alex, umm, Ted, Ummm, Mike,
So when do you unveil how the other two chips faired?
AND who "custom tailored" the chip for the motor?

Should I revise my guess?

Doug

[ted]

Originally posted by DW SD
So when do you unveil how the other two chips faired?
AND who "custom tailored" the chip for the motor?
Should I revise my guess?
Doug

How about tonight?

In El Cajon the "Dyno Shop" owner Mark did the new chip. He use to have an emulator (sp) which made making changes easy. So now he just writes a new chip. He can and did make changes to the chip (AFR and timing) to keep the engine AFR between 12 and 13.
This chip was made specific to my engine and cost $450 including the chip and 2 hours time and 10 pulls on the wheel dyno. I thought it was fair. He will sell you my chip but for a couple more bucks he can make the perfect chip for your combo, the only way to fly!

The junk chip was lean at ideal and top end.

The Weltmiester was a little lean on the top end. That chip came out of an otherwise stock 993, so that chip may not have been optimized for cams and and the open pipe.
The Weltmiester chip did make 295 hp.
That number had me interested again.

Your guess a little high and a little low.

[ted]

Oh and the reason DWSD is pumping me for details is cause he lives near by and he has a similar 3.6 conversion just days away.
Wanna buy chip #1 cheap?
And where were you Sunday, no show at the AX?
AX for starters is the best and safest way to make your 911 really fast.

[DW SD]

I need more seat time, it is true. Sounds like a good deal with Mark doing the tuning. I'll look into that one of these days.

It is true, I have interest in this, but my motives are sound, but not selfish ;-) You've worked very hard to pull this project together and it is nice to see some metrics tied to your results. More than 295HP is solid in my book!

Look forward to the unveiling....Hopefully, you'll provide the dyno printout. The curves are more interesting than the peak numbers alone.

Doug

[ted]

Here are the results.
I need a scanner to post the graphs.
Peak rwhp 306.6.
Peak Torque 264 at 5333 rpm.
The gear spacing drops 1000rpm with each shift.
Shift point will be at 7000 rpm.

RPM RWHP Torque AFR
3467 135.2 205 13.2
3600 146.5 214 13.3
3733 151.6 213 13.4
3867 157.8 214 13.4

4000 161.8 212 13.3
4133 174.9 222 13.2
4267 185.4 228 13.1
4400 199.0 238 13.1
4533 204.6 236 13
4667 209.1 235 13
4800 217.7 238 12.9
4933 230.8 246 12.9

5067 245.0 254 12.9
5200 256.4 259 12.8
5333 268.3 264 12.8
5467 272.3 262 12.7
5600 279.4 262 12.7
5733 284.1 260 12.7
5867 288.7 258 12.6

6000 290.3 254 12.6
6133 290.7 249 12.5
6267 298.4 250 12.4
6400 297.4 244 12.4
6533 302.6 243 12.4
6667 305.2 240 12.2
6800 306.4 237 12.1
6933 302.2 229 12.1

7067 295.1 219 12.2
7200 285.9 209 12.1
7333 273.5 196 12.0

[Jeff Alton]

Holy Crap, nice looking fuel curve!!!! very nice power. Nice "pile-o-torque" too.

Cheers

[DW SD]

WOW - excellent results! This proves attention to detail does make a big difference!
Nice and flat between 3500 and 7000 - very good!
Hope mine ends up being somewhat close to this, but we'll see.

This is pushing 350 crank HP! Nice!

Doug

[911teo]

Wow another great engine...

Like Toni G's engine this baby is putting out more than 95HP litre... Great stuff!

[Carrera3.5L]

Nice looking motor and dyno numbers Ted!

Would be interested to see what that motor makes on 91 pump gas just as a comparison.

I'm trying to organize a dyno day with my buddy Dwain at Vision on their Dynojet. Would be interesting to get a bunch of 3.2/3.4/3.5/3.6/3.8 motors in various states of tune and compare numbers from the same dyno.

Your A/F ratios look just like mine after Steve Wong was done with them. How much power did you gain from your baseline (before your chip programmer optimized the motor)?

Ralph

[ted]

Originally posted by Carrera3.5L
Nice looking motor and dyno numbers Ted!

Your A/F ratios look just like mine after Steve Wong was done with them. How much power did you gain from your baseline (before your chip programmer optimized the motor)?
Ralph

Thanks Guys!
I gave my graphs to a buddy to scan so hopefully I should have the graphs posted soon.

Ralph basically my baseline was with a terrible performance chip. That chip shares the graph with the custom tailored chip. That makes for a dramatic improvement on the graph. For a snapshot I think at 6k rpm the new chip gained 40hp and 25lbs of torque.
Again I don't have the graph in front of me but I'll post it asap after I get it scanned.

We had a borrowed Weltmiester chip that was about 195rwhp peak but it leaned out above 6K rpm. In all fairness it was most likely not optimized for super cup cams. When we looked at the advance maps there was room for improvement as the advance # seemed to skip around unnecessarily.

Looking at the AFR is there room for improvement?
I like carbs for peak hp #s but for track driving confidence the FI never burbles and the ease of cold starts and other FI pluses this suits me fine. I had 48IDAs on Hot VW engines and I am glad to be done with those. In my eyes a carb guy that matches my AFR #s is a god!

The engine is optimized for 100 unleaded, do you think it could be driven even slowly on the street with 91 without detonating?

I would like to try it with a 993 RSR style induction system. Know of one for sale?

I have some CMW ported big valve heads too that might be nice to try after I acclimate to the new power.

Can't wait to try it out at Big Willow, we'll be there Friday and all weekend with the San Diego PCA TT.

Yes Dement is the man, I'd enjoy attending a dyno day at his shop, That would be impressive. I have been passed (doors blow off more like it) at the end of the straight at Big Willow by their 700hp twin turbo, sweet!

Graphs to follow.
Thanks for your interest.

[ted]

Just the graphs from the dyno day.

This one show the old baseline chip in blue.

In Blue lines are the old baseline chip.
HP being the higher line and the lower blue line is the torque.

Above in red is the HP and Torque with the new improved chip.

This graph shows the best chip HP curve and the air fuel ratio line on the bottom as well.

Here is the best chip only HP and Torque curves.

[DW SD]

Mr. Trebec,
Just curious: Did you adjust the fuel pressure at all on dyno day? Do you know: Could you have used the factory regulator with the same results?
IE if you crankup the pressure, the time that the injectors is open changes (reduced). Did Mark make any of those changes?
Thanks,

Doug

[ted]

Originally posted by DW SD
Mr. Trebec,
Just curious: Did you adjust the fuel pressure at all on dyno day? Do you know: Could you have used the factory regulator with the same results?
IE if you crankup the pressure, the time that the injectors is open changes (reduced). Did Mark make any of those changes?
Thanks,

Doug

I put the adjustable Bosch fuel pressure regulator on the car because Roland has one on his wide body black SC.
I got my base chip from his chip... He used the regulator on the dyno, leaned it out and made 30hp more, story goes.
So I uses the same chip, set the pressure to factory but did it all with the chip instead. Want my old chip?
Yes the adjustable pressure regulator may not be the best way to go about it.

[911teo]

Originally posted by ted


I would like to try it with a 993 RSR style induction system. Know of one for sale?

There was one on the classifieds a while back... I considered it but it was big big bucks. Plus not streetable at all (no space for the cleaners). I will try and find the link...

I will have the CMW ported heads too... ha!