3.2 SS Full Rebuilt But Won't Start... I Am At Wits End
 

Hi, I have been working on my fully rebuilt 3.2ss in my 82 SC for almost 3 years. I cannot get the thing to start. I crank and crank and crank and get nothing (following Wayne's guidlines).

- I have spark (new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc)
- Fuel pump runs (turn to "on" lift the CIS gizmo and it starts right up)
- New battery
- 1/4 tank of fresh gas
- I even tried a liberal amount of starter fluid

I have been troubleshooting this and trying to get it started for about 2 months now (one to two nights per week). I am at a loss here. Can anyone let me know something that they think that I forgot? If not does anyone want a 3.2 SS with no miles for parts?

Thanks,

Are you getting fuel? Pull one injector and reach under your airbox and push up on the plunger and see if any fuel comes out of the injector.

Cheers

Yup, got plenty of fuel. Pulled one injector and thar she blows.

HMmmmmmmmmm, you have spark and fuel? And no start? Double check (witch you probably have done) spark plug wire routing (SC dizzy turns backwards) and plug gap. After that check the cam timming agian I guess. After that , I don't know.

Cheers

Tim,
Three years work huh. Don't let no stinking failure to start discourage you.
You've shown there is fuel. So what could be missing?
One of only two things, well maybe three.
1. Spark. Pull a plug, connect it up and check for spark while someone else cranks the motor.
2. Compression. Not likely with a fresh rebuild.
3. Timing of the spark. So you got spark, right. This is whats left. Real common to have the distributor off 180 degrees.
Check for the compression stroke at number one.
Just because it is at TDC on the crank, doesn't mean it is the compression stroke.
Once you are SURE number one is at compression TDC, check the rotor position. Should be pointing at about 1 o clock. There is a small notch in the edge of the distributor.
Now double check the cap. Sit the cap on the distributor. At 1 o'clock on the cap should be the wire going to number one.
One last check, not mentioned above. With the distibutor cap off, rotate the motor CLOCKWISE just a little, to verify the direction the rotor turns.
If the rotor turns clockwise, the next wire should be going to number 6.
If the rotor turns counterclockwise the next wire should be number 6.
I don't remember which direction your rotor turns, so find out and double check the wiring order. 1-6-2-4-3-5.
With a plug out get the feel how the connector clicks onto the plug. You may have to press them on harder.
It will go when you get the spark at compression with fuel.
Yeah I know sounds so simple.
Have fun.

Pull your top valve cover and follow the intake valve around to #1 and make sure your cams are not 180 off, it happened to me, a quick compression check will also tell you..

Can't remember if it's a removable part on your model, but the large starter ring gear is installed on the flywheel...right? In other words the starter would spin and spin without actually turning the engine. I've heard of this being forgotten more than a few times. Especially hard to diagnose if you're working alone and not actually looking at the engine while it's trying to turn over.

Ok, I ran a compression check at #3 (because it was the easiest to reach). It reads 130 psi. So that means the cams are right. I am going to double check the position of the dizzy now.

What P&C's? 9.5 to 1 if so with the intake open you should be around 170/180?

They are 98mm J&Es that were measured around 9.5:1. I did not remove the other plugs, it was just a quick way of seeing if it had anything in there. I was going to check another cylinder but the adapter got stuck down the spark plug hole. I have not figured out how to get it out without pulling a valve cover.

130 on a brand new, never run motor is in the range, especially if he has a little more cam than the stock SC profile. Not sure if he opened the throttle either while doing it.

Keep us posted!

Nope I didn't open the throttle. The cams are a 964 grind also new.

Ok guys, I found it (thank you). The dizzy is off 180 degrees. Now when I line it up I cant seem to get the rotor to line up with the notch at the middle of the adjustment. Which side is it best to have the adjustment on?

turning the distributor body will line up the notch to the rotor. it's just a starting point, by eyeball, then you run it and set the timing properly.

Hi JW,

I can line it up in one of two ways:

1. with the adjustment almost all the way clockwise
2. with the adjustment almost all the way counter-clockwise.

Which way is best?

Are you sure you are on the right marks on the pulley. Snap us a photo and post so we can see excactly what you are facing!

Glad it is almost sorted!!

Cheers

Well I tried it and it didn't work. I guessed and either I was wrong or there is still something else (I am seeing a pattern here). I double checked the spark and you can clearly smell fuel. I am sure that I had the right marks on the pulley I saw them clearly with my light/mirror (it was marked with a paint pencil while it was apart). Putting the thing at TDC was a pain, it does not like to be moved with the fan belt (even with the plugs out). Maybe there is an underlying mechanical problem with the lower end? It turns over fine but who knows at this stage I am opened for any suggestions.

I am done for tonight I have to do that whole work thing tomorrow. I don't have a camera handy but maybe sometime this week. I don't even want to look at it anymore.

Tim,
Where North of Boston are you ? I live in Arlington and would be happy to put some fresh eyes on it,
Dave

Hi Dave, I live in Tyngsboro which is about 30 miles from Arlington. I am going try the dizzy again sometime this week, I will let you know how it goes.

it may be flooded by now, so check/dry the plugs.

I thought about it being flooded too. Taking the plugs out of that thing is a pain with the motor in the car. It can be done but it almost seems easier to drop the motor to get to them. I am going to try the timing again this week. I will snap some pictures and show you guys what I am talking about with the adjustment.

Thanks, I appreciate your help.

I would check the following in this order...

1. Fuel
2. Spark
3. Ignition timing
4. Cam timing

Good Luck

Well, here is the run down.
1. Check
2. Check
3. Need to verify this again
4. Check

I tell you what your cams are 180 off it's easy to do I did it 2years ago
and it was the same as you discribe. I ended up turning one cam and it fired rightup. but it was running on 3 cylinders. Everything else is working fuel spark. the reading on how to set the cam timing is a little confussing and I thought I had it right until two of us sat down and thought it out and that is what it ended up to be, in my case. But before that I cranked and cranked with no fire at all. Just my 2 cents worth

Mine wouldn't start up either...it was finally determined that I had the incorrect gap on the 2 flywheel sensors.

I had a short time to mess around last night and after removing a plug have figured out that it has to be flooded. The plug came out dripping in gas. There is no way it could start with that much fuel in it.

But you have tried to start this thing multiple times......The flooding is a symptom of something else. If it will not start on 3 then it is something relevent to both sides of the engine......ie 2x cam timing out, 1x ignition out, 1x sensor failure, 1x ?

How about putting a degree wheel, print out from the internet and stick to pulley with a whole in it so that you can get to the bolt to spin the engine. then site down with the timing specs and the distributor off and slowly check cam and ignition timing at the same time. Take both top side rocker covers off so that you can see everything. The over lap check is good but using the degree wheel gives you direct reference to the engine rotation and ignition timing at the same time.

If only one cam was out it should at least fire up on three.

Hope that this helps.

Mark......

PS..... print out an wheel fro here http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/degree_wheel.pdf
stick on card cut hole for crank bolt......stick to outside edge of pulley.

no start
 

I had a freind who had the same problem, he asked me to help after 2 years, multiple batterys and ripping his hair out(he,s bald now) If you put the left cam on the right side and right cam on the left side you can still set cam timing and have compression.Check the lobes are in the right configuaration when set up on #1.
Richie, Lynmor motorsports

During my explorations I found out the coil was wired backward and the dizzy was 180 degrees off. I am hoping that I flooded it before I fixed these two issues. I am going to remove the plugs, run a full compression test (hopefully remove the extra fuel) then I am going to check the timing once again but at this point I am still disgusted looking at it. During the exhaust stroke, which valve is it again left or right?

This computer has the pictures of the project, the one in the garage does not so this is a shot of what I am dealing with...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1140380225.jpg

any news tim?

Nope, not yet. I drained the oil, removed the lower valve covers and then let it drain. There was gas in the oil from it being flooded so that needed to go. I am in my garage now so I am going to double check the timing and start putting it back together. I will let you know if I make any progress today.

good luck

The results are in... nothing! My time in the garage is done I have other errands to run before the work week starts. I quadruple checked the timing with the valve covers off and it was right. Changed the oil to get rid of the gas, checked the fuses, checked the relay, and it still won't start. It has spark and fuel but will not run. I'm done game over.

nitemare. how about finding a reputable shop in your area and letting them do a diag on it

CIS issues
 

Hi Tim, at the start of the thread you said that when you checked the injectors- that it starts right up. You mean the injectors run or the engine will run briefly?

Assuming your cams are in the right way round and the CDI is working well...

Sounds to me like you have CIS issues. I had similar difficulties getting my engine to run after installing it.

I had to clean and flush gas tank. (Bad gas is a NIGHTMARE)
replace fuel filter
then check cold start valve (it's cold in Boston)
then check WUR
then check AAR

Question, did your car run well before rebuild, did you spend any money on the CIS?

Don't give up hope now!
You are very close to getting it going

best wishes

Brett

Hi Brett,

It has never even sputtered. I pulled the injector off of #1 and it has fuel. I bought the car with a bad motor as a project car although it has turned out to be more of a project than I thought. The cold start valve was checked and it worked fine. I have not dealt much with the CIS. My grand plan was to get it running and then save my pennies for EFI.

I have done the only sane thing left to do. I called a Prosche/Bosch technician in NH today about coming and getting it. I told him the story and he was looking forward to getting his hands on it. This guy comes recomended from a friend of mine. I have been through every possible problem and cannot figure it out so it is time to turn it over to someone else who knows more. I will let you know what the problem was I am hoping it is just something stupid that will make me laugh... I could use a laugh about it.

project car
 

Tim, goodluck with your Wrench. Let us know the news

Here is the latest in the drama... I talked to the Wrench today and he told that the reason that it was not starting was that the WUR was stuck in the opened position. It was essentially just filling the engine with gas. He fixed it and it started... then after 5 minutes of running.... the engine froze. I am not sure what he means by "froze" but it stopped spinning and required the removal of the engine, chain boxes, and a few other things. He told me that he played around with it and freed it up, put it back in the car and is going to try to start it tomorrow. I have never heard of an engine that froze and then became ok afterward. I am curious to see what the problem really is. He said that it was not hydrolocked but he needed until tomorrow before he could tell me exactly what was wrong with it. I will keep you updated. Anyone heard of an engine freezing up and then being fine after it freed up?

The nightmare continues... it must really be possesed.

never heard of that. normally when an engine physicaly stops its because of a faliure ie piston to valve contact. did you check your piston to valve clearance when you built it?

Oh yeah, we checked everything. I am going to let the wrench handle this one. I will let you know.