Jeeze... the last time I heard about that many oil leaks coming from the base of the cylinders was when a friend forgot to torque the heads on one side....

Ya, I'd be really upset with the shop too.....

JB

I just got back from driving the car for about 45minutes, the leaking appears to come from someplace higher than the cylinder base gaskets, before the base gaskets leaked all the time even when sitting. I dont think they are leaking from there like before, the engine wasn't terribly oily but was still wet, it didn't take much to clean up.

When i drop the engine to adjust the valves next week i will be able to identify where most of the leakage is from.
Dont laugh guys but i picked up some aerosol Permatex external leak stopper. I used this stuff on a big oil leak i had on my BMW about 14 years ago and it worked great!
I may attempt to slow things up by using it. Maybe attach a shop vac to the oil breather hose and suck the stuff into the areas that are suspect.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217614012.jpg

Actually you guys can laugh all you want, this of course is a band aid so i can enjoy the car for awhile until i have it fixed right.

Hi Chappy
I am sorry to see that your ordeal persists.
You may have some good news.
Oil leaks from above the cylinders are either a case through bolt or two (easy to remedy) or possibly leaks around the oil sender, breather or thermostat.
There isn't much else above the cylinder line.
Check those items and who knows, maybe your luck will change.

As for globbing gobs of goo on a freshly built 911 engine: NO NO!! step away from the precision built German vehicle:).

Remember this nightmare? you don't want to join the ranks of the absurd.

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Henry if i cant fix it i am giving you a shot at it this time.
The car is really fun hard to limit the RPMS on this break in it wants to blast off and it is hard to let off fast enough.

Well, that looks like the used engine that I bought, but my tractor mechanic used red RTV instead of gray and he installed the head studs backwards.

I told you those little turbos (70.4x97) want to run. There is something mysterious about that combination.
The 3.12 935 made 700 and proved to be very formidable in IMSA competition.

As for having us repair someone else's screw up. Yikes!! I can guarantee you one thing, we will take closer to 1 month than 1 year. I'll even give you a rate.

"I'll see your rate and raise you" opps I'm channeling Al again. Whoo-ah

How long should i wait to let her go...

Henry, you should be banned from posting those UGLY, UGLY pics. :D

Here's my only question on all the tricko sealants...

I understand the good stuff will seal, which is A Good Thing.

After you've got it all stuck together so well it won't leak, how hard is it to get it UN-stuck for the next rebuild? Are any of these "permanent" sealants?

I'm OK with the application of 'moderate' amounts of heat (after all, the engine gets hot in service...) but there's a limit to how much I want to be waving a torch around a magnesium case...

Hi folks,

I'm planning to use Henry's four sealant approach when I seal my case. I would like to lay in the crankshaft and components and have some time to inspect everything. I will have to apply the 1211 to the #8 bearing when I lay the crank in. How long do I have before I need to torque down the case (as it effects the 8 bearing)? Note that I am just asking about the 1211 around the #8 bearing. Ideally I would love to have about 24hrs after I lay the crank in before sealing the whole case.

After driving the car for close to 300 miles i think i am able to pin down the source the oil is leaking from. The 914-6 heat exchangers were preventing me from getting a good look up there, i replaced them with my headers and not only saw huge improvement in lag but can see what's going on with the leaks now.
Engine leaks from the head to cylinder runs all over the exhaust flanges and runs down the heat diverter tins. I have Henrys Supertec head studs in there and i've not checked it yet but i bet the builder torqued the nuts to the factory spec's, not Henrys of 30lbs.

How can this be remedied if the head studs are torqued correctly. 3.3 cylinders- 78 SC heads.

No problem disassembling. Nothing a rubber mallet and a wooden drift won't knock loose.

BTW you can unload an entire handheld propane torch on a mag case without worries. These are giant alloy heatsinks (the largest ever cast at the time, in fact), not the little shavings of magnesium you flared in high-school chem.

Chap,

Pull the valve covers and look for leaking from the rocker shafts. Sorry you are having these problems on something you want to enjoy. Be strong dood, you'll get it!

I have had head nuts loosen with steel studs. Just retorque them.

-Andy

Those pictures that Henry post truly are scary but its not like I have not seen that sort of fix before. In racing as long as it lasts the race you are golden, on a streetcar its a bit different. I just came across a new sealant that I am truly a fan of. When I built my dad's motor I used curil t on the cylinders to case, threebond 1104 for the case halves and a host of other products for the rest. When I have a chance to rebuild it again I will use Curil T on the cylinder to case halves and Audi "sump sealant" on the rest of the motor. It is pricey but damn does it work well.

Thanks to all who helped so much in this thread. Here's a picture of Henrys four sealant approach prior to mating. I found that the best way to spread the sealants was with a foam swab after laying down a bead. I loaded a syringe with the 1104 and that worked great. like everyone says. a little goes a long way. I had the perfect amount of squeeze out and barely used any.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1221961848.jpg

I am having a hard time finding Threebond 1104, is the new 1194 ok to use?

Also, in the above pic, what is the red sealant in the bearing races? I cant tell if it's lube on the bearings, or if the bearings are being glued in.

Thanks

I believe Henry explained earlier that 1194 is the "lead free" replacement version of 1104 and is fine to use if you can't find 1104. I can't seem to find either of them locally (Dallas).

Lube. See #1 bearing installed. The others are harder to see (you can make out the tangs on the near side though) but #1 is a dead giveaway.

Here's where to find it. Complete kit $100 plus shipping.

This was not a track side repair. Strangely enough, this was a fresh build with zero miles.
The builder, although regarded as an expert by some, hasn't got a clue!!!

Will DC 111 be okay on the cam shaft end cover o rings or will this cause problems?

That is the proper product for those o-rings. Use sparingly and don't let it get on the green gaskets underneith.

-Andy

Thanks, that's good to hear since already used it:D. I used it very sparingly and it seemed to make them slide in easier.

That's red line assembly lube.

I'm getting ready to assemble my bottom end. I picked up the sealants and I've been experimenting with the threebond 1194 ( previously 1104). when spread thinly on aluminum, in my garage ( coolish), it sets up to tack free in about 3 minutes. tops! I have concerns about getting it applied and assembling the case in that kind of time frame. any thoughts/input? thanks, Don.

ps - as this obviously isn't anaerobic, will dried squeeze out on the inside harm anything?

it seems to dry over pretty quickly but when you torque it down it grabs. it took me about five minutes to get it applied to my case. you don't need to use too much, that will minimize squeeze out. I found that loading a syringe and spreading a consistent bead, then smoothing with a foam (not cotton!) swab worked well. The resulting bead is minor and pretty tough, I doubt any would flake off. If you are using the 1211 on the nose you really only need a very light coat, almost as light as you can spread it with a finger.

Where can you get Curil T in Canada?
 

In my province, there seems to be no supplier of Curil T. What is a suitable substitute?

Hylomar® Universal Blue sealant


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look at my last post here.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/canada/433441-ultimate-engine-sealant-thread-canada.html

apparently, hylomar by permatex will also work. Don.

I use non-hardening permatex. It's a black tar-like substance.

-Andy

oil leaks from heads
 

Here are some underside pictures of the heads where oil is leaking from engine ( same on both sides), i cleaned the engine area up with some brake cleaner because everything was very wet with oil , this may help all of you pinpoint and identify the problem area better . The engine now has about 400 miles on it, the engine builder has tried twice to seal it up without success, he claims that i will probably have to live with the leaks as it is probably a case of parts that dont fit well together. I plan on dropping the engine soon to do a valve adjustment and clutch, pressure plate upgrade.

Is it possible the shop didn't torque the headstuds properly, and if this is the case, could a re-torque remedy the problem, or will things have to come apart again.

Any suggestions.

79 SC heads, 91 turbo 3.3 pistons and cylinders, Supertec head studs. .8 bar boost.

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Chappy, did they install RSR "O" rings on the rocker shafts?

Case through-bolts, perhaps?

EDIT: doubtful, just looked at the pictures again.

+1

If you pull your valve covers you will be able to see of the rocker shafts are leaking. Without the RSR o-rings, rebuilt engines are likely to leak here according to Wayne's rebuild book.

I used the o-rings and my number 3 exhaust rocker shaft is weeping - was slightly wet. Without the o-ring, it would probably be leaking quite a bit.

I dont know what they used for o rings. I but i am assuming they used ones for an SC.

The SCs didn't come with them.

If you have seen picks of the rocker shaft you will see two grooves in them. The o-rings fit into these grooves to help seal the shaft. Normally, torquing the shaft will cause them to expand and seal. However, on a rebuilt engine it becomes less likely that they will form the proper seal - hence the o-rings.

I noticed you're using the '91 cylinders on your build. I have the same type of cylinders on my 3.3 w/3.3 heads. They're weeping between the head and cylinder. These cylinders have a habit of leaking (slightly), mostly due to the amount of surface area between the head and cylinder. I had a post on this site as to what can be done to remedy. Steve@Rennsport replied there's not much that can be done except to disassemble and and have the heads and cylinders ringed. He stated he's done this many times on these cylinders with fantastic results.
To rule out the rocker shafts, I pretty much used the ol' white glove technique. Use a white glove or white cloth and touch the ares outside the rocker shaft. If there's oil, it will show.

My leaks are leaking more than slightly, i could never drive it around for a day, and forget about using the heater boxes, after driving the car for a half hour or so the bottom and engine case are very wet and drippy.

did you use the green viton o-rings that go in the spigot bores of the C2 930 cylinders?