3.2 rebuild will not start For the love of God please help

[kühn tune]

Henry Schmidt
I would hate to see a Richard Pryor replay because of something I said.

I am a carburetor/choke cleaner connoisseur and this stuff is oiler than diesel fuel. I have learned that the more expensive the can, the less effective the cleaner. Due caution was taken with a large fan blowing the fumes and a little heat out the barn door.

If they aren't clicking after a few short pulses then you should have them cleaned or buy new ones.

I guess I didn't realise that the "click" would be that noticeable. Now I'm thinking that the pressure and spray is less critical than the "click" at this point.

jtfreels

I am in Fayette county about 30 miles east of Motorweks in Cordova.

[ChrisBennet]

I perform a basic check on electronic injectors by applying a vacuum to the sprayer end with my Mitivac (hand vacuum pump). When you energize the injector you'll see the vacuum pressure drop as it draws air through the injector. No muss, no fuss.
-Chris

[jtfreels]

Way out in the boonies

Jay

[kühn tune]

Yeah, we prefer the tems "Sticks", "Jerkwater" or "East Jesus Annex".

I would just like to thank everyone again for all of your help. It seems it was the injectors after all. I touched a 7.2v battery to injectors 1 and 5 and finally heard the "click" I had been missing. It's been so long sonce I drove the car, I forgot about the cacaphony off clicks over the fan whir. So now I have to find someone to rebuild the injectors.

Any offers or recomendations?

[Henry Schmidt]

Congratulations. Remember sometimes after a long project it's not uncommon to have more than one problem.
Good luck as you progress along the way.

[kühn tune]

Yes, I already know I have a couple of oil leaks to hunt down and a million things to fix on the car once I get it running and past the point of concern that it's going to drop a valve or have a tensioner collapse due to something I did.

I'd sure like to get these injectors clean at home and at no cost. Would it be safe to immerse them? Anyone have any suggestions as to what I could immerse them in? Isopropyl alcohol comes to mind, but would it cut the varnish? I tried to get the cap off the end of the one I have out, but I couldn't figure out how.

[Henry Schmidt]

Your best chance at home is to reinstall the injectors and start the engine (even if just on two cylinders) and put 12V pulses into it.
Once you get them to click, they should run. Next you can put fuel injection cleaner in your tank and cross your fingers.
The longer it (the engine) runs, the cleaner they will get.

I believe this is futile but if you want give it a try.

Some on this forum believe I am a (can't do kind of guy) so this ones for you.

[buttjoint]

One of these days I would like to meet you henry. Ya have to be a super guy to spend your valuable time helping these folks. Jim

[Henry Schmidt]

I'll be at Ventura, if you get a chance come up and say hello.

Here's a picture so you know who you're looking for.




Just kidding
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[goldgunner]

Nice to put a face with the name and persona.

As to injectors - a question:
20-25-30 year old injectors seem to be commonly professionally cleaned and tested (and calibrated?) at a variety of reliable shops. Seems many are happy with the results - but is it reasonable to believe that injectors that old are, in fact, going to be consistently performing as well as new injectors would on a total engine rebuild? Seems after throwing many thousands of $$ on a rebuild that another $800 or so on new injectors is worthwhile. Opinions?

Same for electrically actuated injectors as well as mechanical injectors?

Thanks in advance,
Jim

[Henry Schmidt]

I believe that the best results will be achieved by replacing old injectors with new ones.

That said, you have to draw a line somewhere.
I would suggest that there may be better places to spend your hard earned money but if you get to a choice and you still have money leftover ( whatever that means ) buy new injectors.

With old stuck injectors you may have no choice.

[kühn tune]

I have all but two "clicking" now and I managed to get a little dribble from my wack-howdy rig pictured above from one of the injectors. I'm going to keep after them this weekend and with any luck get the car started so I can sort the rest of it out while I send the injectors off. My short-term goal for this is to be able to pull the car in and out of the Garage this Winter, but I'll admit to having a hankering to drive it.

I'd be a little hard pressed to spend $800.00 on injectors for on a car that is worth no more than mine provided I can get it running without them.

[kühn tune]

It's running at last! On 3 or 4 cylinders at least. There's a pretty loud clatter coming from the left bank. Hopefully it's a loose valve. I don't see how that would be possible considering how long the long block sat on the bench, but I have done it once before.

More concerning is what sounded like a ratchet going back and forth. It sounded like it was coming from the alternator/belt area, but I'm afraid of it being a chain dragging. I am scared to death one of those tensioners will fail.

[TimT]

Ummmmm

why not box all the injectors up, and send them to either Marren or Rc Eng. They will clean/test/rebuild your injectors.

When the injectors return to you (usually within a week) they are accompanied by a Excel spreadheet indicating each injectors capabilites.

As good as new, perhaps better.

BTW injectors get 12v full time.. they pull to ground to fire

[kühn tune]

Alrighty. I'm sending the injectors off to RC this week for rebuilding. Hopefully they can fix the stuck ones too.

I'm going to look for that rattle this weekend, I'm still expecting a loose exhaust valve.

I've still got that strange sound that I am afraid may be a chain. Is there any way to know what the pressure fed tensioners are doing without pulling the covers? If I pull the covers will I be able to tell anything once the lines are unhooked?

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally posted by TimT
...............................BTW injectors get 12v full time.. they pull to ground to fire

You are absolutely correct.
Not all injectors operate on battery voltage but the injectors in this engine do.
Good call.

[kühn tune]

Remember the rattle?

One of these things is not like the other. Anyway, I spent a solid 20 minutes lookin for the nut even poking a mangnet into the oil tubes before I discovered it stuck to the valve cover.

Well that was embarassing.


I have yet another question though while I wait on the news about my injectors. When the engine was running poorly last week, there was a sound that sounded like the sould a ratchet would make if you were holding it by the socket and let it swing like "crink crink crink" pause "crink crink crink" pause. It sounded like it was coming from the alternator, but it has me a bit worried about the chain. I loosened the oil lines to the tensioners and turned the engine over and both wept a lot of oil, but is there any way to know if the tensioner is doing its job? I'd love to pull the chain covers off and see what is happening while the oil is out of the engine.

Questions
1. Is there a way to check the tensioners without pulling the covers?
2. If I remove the muffler, can I get the rear tin and the chain covers off?

Thanks again everyone for helping me through this especially Henry.

[Henry Schmidt]

You're welcome.

2. If I remove the muffler, can I get the rear tin and the chain covers off? YES

Don't feel too bad about the adjuster nut. It could happen to anyone.

One of our resent engines had that exact same problem and no one is perfect.

[kühn tune]

Alright, we're running.

I never did figure out what was making that sound, but I did pull both of the covers to make sure the tensioners were good.


I got scared about that idler not being centered on the piston and spent a solid hour fretting over it before just moving it with a screwdriver. (I probably should have replaced those chains, but it was a different world two & a half years ago when I started.)

I got my injectors back from RC Engineering. They took just over a week including shipping to CA. They even re-painted them (albeit a different color). I wonder how they got those stuck ones running, I was fully expecting to have to buy some more.

So after the startup and breakin run which sounded fine, I went to back it into the garage and it felt like it had a dead cylinder. I hope I get a chance to pull the plugs this week. Thanks again for everyone's help. I was really scared I had done something wrong.

[scarceller]

Folks, DO NOT apply 12v to these injectors! you will burn the coil out. It's not so much the 12v but rather the current, many folks try to apply 12v from the cars circuitry and the current level is just to high. A much better way is to just use a 9volt battery, you can leave it connected as long as you wish you won't burn the injector. I have built a test rig for these injectors and I use a DC square wave generator for testing these, (BTW - my day job is Electronic Engineer). as for the rig I have something very simular to what's in the picture above. A long tube one end connected to the injector and the other has a air requlator that connects to my air compresor. I set the pressure via the requlator to about 30psi and I fill the tube with Kerosene then apply the 30psi pressure but NO voltage to the injector yet. Then apply the 9volts and you should get your injector to spray. The longer the tube is the longer your spray test can be. I am thinking of adapting the tube side to a small 1/2 gallon container (Maybe 3" PVC Pipe chamber) so that I can pressurize the larger container filled with Kerosene. I use Kerosene because it is safer than Gasoline or Starter fluid, as already mentioned use care here since you do have a electric source involved and a small spark and Gasoline don't mix well.

The DC Square Wave generator just allows me to pulse the injector just like it works while in the car. DC Square Wave Generators are not very expensive. For example search E-Bay for Square Wave Generator or look at item #220040549296. Well under $50.00.