Cam Tower - Oil Leak

[GotaT]

I've been working through many oil leaks on my 2.4 and have come a very long way. My most recent fix was an Oil Cooler.. This helped Tremendously , of course. The only remaining Oil Leaks that are apparent are coming from what seems to be the Cam towers. I have the clear red anearobic sealant in between the towers and the heads but am still seeing some oil seapage between these two parts. What can be done to Solve this leak. Without Dissambling the rockers, chains.... etc.

Note, I recently drained the oil and removed one lower valve cover and re tightened the Lower Line of Nuts holding the Tower on thinking this might help.. Didnt seem to.

I also noticed 2 Nuts on the transmission side on each side of the engine showing some sign of leaks. These have Crush washers and plug into the Oil lines. I'll get new Crush Washers.

[john walker's workshop]

remove the covers and see if any oil is coming out of the rocker shaft bores. looks the same as a head to cam tower leak from below. warped valve covers?

[GotaT]

Ive got RSR seals and I used high temp rtv on the Allen bolt side.. theres no oil coming from there. Valve covers are good. Im almost sure the leak is coming from between the cam towers and heads. Know of any fixes?.. w/o removing rockers, chains..etc.
I was thinking of using some sort of sealant on the Outside of these two parts, as there is no real oil pressure at this point, I was just hoping not to have to.. . doesnt seem "by the book" ..ya know,. Any thoughts?

[GotaT]

Bump.. Any thoughts?

[SP2]

I am relatively new to mechanics, but have my engine out and actively reassembling it and have pretty good basic knowledge now, so if you are sure of the diagnosis, there IMO is no option but to tear down and reseal. Sorry, I know that is not what you are hoping to hear, but that's what I think.

[YTNUKLR]

If you pull the valve covers and it not the rocker shafts, and it is verifiably between the head and cam tower, IMO any band aid fix will only give you a headache later. If you are not going to disassemble, clean and re-seal now, I'd put an oil catch pan underneath the motor when you park it on your driveway/garage, and wait until you actually do tear down the motor to fix it correctly. By the way, RTV should never be used on the cam towers or rocker shafts.....I personally (though I don't like leaks) would rather have a leak than RTV on my engine.

[GotaT]

If that is the case I have to ask.. I wonder why the anaerobic Sealant didnt work?... I applied to Both mating surfaces and tourqued the towers. I used the only thing I could Find being Permatex brand clear red anaerobic sealant, designed for rigid surfaces... Stumped ???

[GotaT]

YTNuckler... The Leak is not that bad, maybe 3 drops after I park the car and run it... I just really want it to be Right!.. You all know what I mean. But I have taken the engine apart too many times, too recently to want to do it again, and Im sure you can appreciate that too.

[SP2]

Wow, I didn't know that could be done with the engine in the car. Maybe it was just the sealant? If you do have to do it again, probably get the "by the book" stuff, Loctite, mentioned in Wayne's rebuild book.

But 3 drops doesn't sound like something I would tear the engine apart for, at least not right away. Do you guys agree? Maybe it will seal itself after a while. CBRacer rebuilt his engine and had a few leaks and someone said it might stop on its own after awhile.

[Eagledriver]

I've used that sealant on 2 engines with good result. I used a continuous bead however. Yours looks a little haphazard. I say just live with it until you are ready to take it apart again.

Almost all the leaks I've seen from that area were rocker shafts. RSR seals help but are not a cure-all.

-Andy

[GotaT]

Thanks for the replies... Ive already got the RSR seals and I also used red rtv sealant on the Outside of the Allen bolts holding the shafts in place.
When I applied the red sealant I spread it w/ my finger, Could that be the cause of leakage?
Did you apply the sealant using a bead to Both surfaces? and Which sealant did you use Eagle.. The permatex I used or the Loctite? Ive been told the Permatex that I got was the Exact same stuff as the loctite, same mfg even.
Thanks

"Wow, I didn't know that could be done with the engine in the car"
.. It took some time but I was determined not to take the engine out at that time..

[SP2]

What torque did you use on the rocker shafts? Try taking it up to 18 or 19 Nm. That is alot easier than a rebuild. I don't know about that RTV on the allen bolt. It won't do anything really and some might fall off and into the oil circulation. Walt (last name?) is the expert and on his website he says to go to 18-20 Nm. Actually he says it in ft.lbs, but 18-20 converted.

[GotaT]

The RTV sealant is on the Outside of the Allen bolt and nut holding the rocker shsfts in place, it is more of a Secondary precaution, over and above the RSR seals. If the rtv would "come off" it would only fall into the void part of the valve cover... Keep in mind the leak is Not coming from the Rocker shafts.. I may post pics tomorrow if I get a chance, to get your expert opinions.... like some have said, I may end up running it like it is for some time before I redo the sealant.

Also note that to completely retourque All of the nuts holding the Cam Tower on, the Rocker arms/Shafts must be removed. As you can see there are 6 studs in the Middle.. these are prohibited by the rocker arms... So if Im going to retourque, I may as well just pull the chains and cam out and RE-Seal... "bah humbug"...... . . . ..

__________________
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[Eagledriver]

I used loctite 318 on one and the permatex red stuff on the second. Both had the same consistancy. I think retorqing the cam tower nuts is a bad idea. The sealant has hardened and you'll only crack/crush it.

-Andy

[kepperly]

QUESTION??? Why are the RSR seals for the rocker arm shafts
so expensive??? 24 seals at $4.50 each??? What gives Wayne are you going into the oil biz or is it you can just get away with it??

Keith Epperly
87 slant nose turbo look carrera cabriolet

[SP2]

I have read on this board from Walt Whitman and Henry, 2 experts, that they are not needed. So I took this information and my plan is to try it without them, torque to 18 N.m and install them dry. Then add oil to the rockers thru the little holes on them before I buttoned up the valve covers. You can always add them later if needed. Just my personal plan.

My rockers weren't leaking when I took them out, so it was an easy decision. I just kept the same rockers and rocker shafts matched to the cylinders I removed them from.

[GotaT]

Originally posted by Eagledriver
I used loctite 318 on one and the permatex red stuff on the second. Both had the same consistancy. I think retorqing the cam tower nuts is a bad idea. The sealant has hardened and you'll only crack/crush it.

-Andy

The Anarobic Sealant is designed Not to Dry, unlike an rtv. It does not harden between surfaces, its more of a Gel. By retourquing I would only be spreading the "gel" more. I think the problem that I've encountered is that I didnt apply as a Bead instead I spread it w/ my fingers evenly.. thus causing Not enough sealant to be put down...

[GotaT]

Ill try to post some pics of the leak.

[YTNUKLR]

Anaerobic sealant IS designed to dry, the difference is it dries anaerobically, ie. without oxygen present. These conditions are met when sandwiched between a cam tower and head. Retorquing is not the issue-if all the cam tower nuts are at 18.4 lb.ft that is the way things are. If you didn't put on enough sealant or there is something uneven/gouged on the surfaces, you get a leak, unfortunately....

Originally posted by SP2
I have read on this board from Walt Whitman...

You mean this guy? I didn't know there was anything about cam tower sealing in Leaves of Grass......



(ps. it's Walt Watson)

[SP2]

ROFLOL! Dude, that is too funny.