Kirk,

Depends on how the car is driven and the quality of the fuel..I used UK standard Shell RON 95 ..I could try 98 or even 100RON .....thats one reason why a higher RON will give you more "power" as less knocks recorded..depends on the programing of the ECU map.

The ECU will always be pushing to advance the spark and the knock sensor will inform the ECU of a few knocks to then back off and retard the ignition to try and find the perfect point.

I don't see how you can record zero ...you need to have some...not hundreds though..then you would have an issue...or I could drive the car on a light throttle and get Zero .....:D.... for the test I full throttled while at 30MPH

Odd as my engine runs very freely and pulls like a train.

Supercharge ..will that be my next project .... ;)

Great thread!! Thanks for sharing.

Can you post any more pictures of the A/C repair. I'm waiting on my heads and case from the machine shop and want to dig into the evap, txv & dryer while I'm waiting.

Thanks!

Sorry these are the only AC pictures I have .

One more job that I actually carried out a few months ago was the rebuild of the rear spoiler gearbox as it was making a right old noise as it was driven up and down.

All you have to is remove the spoiler gearbox (under the rear engine cover), split the plastic case apart, remove all the components disassemble and split them apart, you will then see the issue .. the small ball race will be dry and very rattly as its run dry with water actual flowing into it...nice design!!..:confused:

Any decent bearing agent will be able to supply the bearing (by the hand) I went for an upgraded sealed version to try and stop the water entering it ..cost me £5 for two ( minimum order)

Re-grease and reassemble.....case was glued with super glue.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179349251.jpg

And just to prove to myself the engine is working as designed... :cool:

UK 1992 964 3.6 STD C2 Tiptronic
Taken today 19/May/2007 1200miles after a full engine rebuild
Full STD cat and exhaust
RON 95
Cool sunny day

Porsche spec Factory flywheel reading:
250HP(183.87KW)
228LBS/FT (309.12Nm) torque

My readings flywheel reading:
251BHP (184.61KW)
229LBS/FT (310.48Nm)torque

The Air ration (Mixture) was spot on throughout the whole rev range...even at 120MPH!!

As the car is a Tipronic, the electronics get quite confused as to how is the car "running forwards" but the front wheels aren't moving..thats why the spoliers not up and also the gear LED indicators inside shut down as well...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179575360.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179576551.jpg

Nice!

I would love to get mine on the Dyno, but i have a C4 and the nearest AWD Dyno is 10 hours away.

I will probably get it done after the supercharger project is complete.

Kirk

Its been a while since I updated the thread but as well has putting miles driving to the Le Mans 24hr in June we haven't stopped....

The engine is running very well and is certainly a lot freer than when it was on the rolling road...:rolleyes:

I had already adjusted the tappets at 500 miles. So as part of the 3500miles check I changed the engine oil+filter.
As part of the rebuild I fitted new magnetic sump plugs to the oil catchment tank and also as an upgrade I fitted one to the engine. Interesting after 3500miles what each magnetic plug caught....

Engine plug (sorry a little out of focus) :
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962046.jpg
Oil Tank plug (sorry a little out of focus) :
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962119.jpg

The oil as expected was clean and still "golden":
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962184.jpg

New Porsche Genuine filter was fitted and Mobil 1 used:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962237.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962266.jpg

To check the levels (Engine must be hot) the oil gauge was used in conjunction with the dip stick:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962395.jpg
Its there but the oil is too clean (just below top mark).....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189962483.jpg

Well not long after the 3500mile check...500mile+ approx. I lost the alternator drive belt when driving down the motorway in the UK (Interstat in USA). It was a genuine Porsche belt and new when the engine was fitted. As well as the belt snapping, it also jumped into the path and inverted the AC drive belt ...turning it inside out..luckily the Fan belt was ok, so I could keep driving.

Snapped Belt :!!!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189965578.jpg

View of the belt ....4000mile from new.. melting!!:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189963245.jpg

The Reason for the belt snapping was it had "melting", as the alternator pulley was collecting the heat from the "bearing hub". (This allows the fan to run at one speed but the alternator to run faster).

You can see this in the pulley colours....these were all newly plated (should be golden in colour) on the rebuild. If the engine (with a new belt ) was run the alternator pulley became to HOT to touch and melted the belt again!!!

Front pulley is the alternator the "Hot one"..
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189963506.jpg

I thought it might have been the alternator (untouched at the rebuild) so fitted a new alternator, but I had the same issue ...the pulley became TOO HOT.

New alternator not rebuilt (genuine Porsche) :
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189964599.jpg

The "bearing hub" was only a year old and still felt smooth and solid (no play) when it was turned by hand, but obviously there was some sort of issue as the heat generated by it was melting my alternator belts in 100miles..

I knew Porsche on the 964 RS had locked the alternator to the fan for a reason ..was this the reason ?!

So instead of just fitted another bearing hub (did that a year ago), I decided to upgrade and fitted the RS hub (both are the same price from Porsche) ..

Benefit:
1) One less belt
2) Porsche official fix to the Alternator belt issue
3) The fan belt warning sensor will now be working on the Alternator and Fan belt
4) Recommend by the independent Porsche garages I spoke to.

Draw backs:
1) The alternator will now be running slower so the charging rate could be effected
2) Not original

My homework had shown me that there shouldn't be a charging issue and just in case I fitted a larger battery ..680amp instead or 650amps so I had a reserve of power if there was an issue, as my car is Tipronic I can't bump start it...

Standard parts if you want to fit the bearing hub:
964 C2/C4 hub with bearing : 964.106.051.30

RS Parts required if you want to do away with the bearing hub and "upgrade":
RS 962 hub without bearing : 993.106.051.80 + 3x nuts 999.084.094.02

The two hubs compared: RS hub on the left , Standard hub on the right.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189964398.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189964430.jpg

RS hub fitted to the FAN:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189964532.jpg

You will need to loosen the Fan housing to get the Fan on but one alley key will do that job.

The fan, 2 new belts ..fully tensioned were all fitted and the engine was run ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189964812.jpg

As the RS hub locks the fan to the alternator you do not need the 2nd belt, spacers and its pulley...you therefore end up will a pile of parts left over .....keep this just in case you want to revert back to the standard pulley system.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189964915.jpg

fingers crossed now ....

Just an FYI which might have contributed to your problem? Porsche originally fit a shorter belt to the tiptronic equipped (M64.02) engines.

Correct..thats why the fan and the alternator have separate numbers for the tTiptronic belts and each can't be swapped over.

I don't see how this would help to the issue though, as I had the correct genuine Porsche belts and each was tensioned correctly.

Its the pulley that was getting hot (and it wasn't slipping) as the shaft and pulley would get hot just by holding the alternator shaft static even with out the alternator belt fitted and with the engine running...the bearing hub was the issue ....

Ian,

Glad to hear everything is going well.
Strange thing with that fan pulley getting hot. Hopefully you've got it fixed.

Its a shame porsche didnt go with a single serpentine belt for everything. It would have made life simpler. I understand you can get conversion kits these days.

I wil also be installing the RS fan hub as part of my supercharger project. (Which is paused now until I get the pistons back from machining)

Kirk

Interesting thread.


Ian,

I like the colour of your car. What's the colour code and name?

Thanks

Hi ,

The colour is Porsche Cobolt Blue which was first out in 1992-1994, but is now actually back as a Porsche colour for the 997 Turbo in 2007!.

Details :

PORSCHE COBALT BLUE 38U 1992 METALLIC

Try this site for colours:

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/colour_codes_porsche.htm

thanks
Ian

Its moving into winter in the UK now and I thought I would just post an update with the latest results of the engine rebuild and its progress...One track day at Brand Hatch and 5000miles plus later.

After the engine rebuild I put the car on the Rolling Road with great results, but the engine was still very new and "stiff" but ran very well.

Well, over the summer I noticed the engine start to free considerably around the 3000miles point. So with a track day under its belt and several thousand miles later (5000+), I wanted to put the car back on the same Rolling Road at Power Engineering in Uxbridge to see if if I was right.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1195308943.jpg


Car Specification is :

UK 1992 964 3.6 STD C2 Tiptronic

Full STD cat and exhaust
Standard air box, with a K&N insert fitted
RON 95 Shell Petrol

May 2007 1st run " Sunny Day, 15Deg °C"
Nov 2007 2nd run "Cold fresh sunny day, 7Deg °C"


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1195306420.jpg


Porsche flywheel specification from the Factory for a C2:
-----------------------------------------------------------
250HP(183.87KW)
228LBS/FT (309.12Nm) torque

My readings first Rolling Road session, engine still very new and "stiff" (May2007) flywheel reading:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
251BHP (184.61kW) Dark Red line
229LBS/FT (310.48Nm)torque Dark Green Line

My readings on the second Rolling Road session, now with 5000miles and a much looser and free'er engine..very noticeably even when driving (Nov2007)flywheel reading:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
261BHP (191.96kW) Red line
261LBS/FT (353.86Nm)torque Green line


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1195306319.jpg


The % volume CO2 (Air ration-Mixture) was still spot on throughout the whole rev range...even at 120MPH!! at 12.71%

So I'm seeing a 4% increase in BHP, and 14% increase in Torque, I knew it felt a lot "free'er"...but you could ask why so much of a torque increase!

Fuel is the same grade (95 RON), out side air temperature is colder - but in the garage warm. Since the May run, all fluids have been replaced, tappet have been checked and adjusted, RS FAN pulley fitted and the engine is now 5000miles older. All other components are the same. Rolling Road is checked regularly for calibration.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1195308743.jpg

So my rebuild has worked and hopefully an inspiration to others ...if you put your mind to it "You can if you want to, and your name doesn't have the Wolfgang in a white coat to work on a Porsche !!" - the UK mentality.

PS: The Fan belt issue has been fine since I upgraded to the RS pulley system, and without any battery issues.

I'll keep you posted on any events but have a good Thanksgiving . :)

Great thread and nice work Ian!

ianc

Guys,

You might be interested but this rebuild and some fantastic professional photos has now been published in Jan 2008 "Total 911" a sponsor of Pelican parts ...top right of the screen ! And no I do not work from them, infact a million miles away .

Have a good Christmas and New year.

Ian http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1198333649.jpg

Ian,

My january issue just arrived! Congrats on the great write up!

Kirk

Great job Ian. Thanks for posting all that info.

Hi Ian,
I saw the write-up in Total 911 and had to check out your thread. WOW!
I've not seen anything this comprehensive on Rennlist's 964 Forum, and
hope those guys all see the Total 911 article.

I wish you would write a book!
Thanks, again -RK

Hi,

Its been while since I updated the engine thread ....well technically not too much has happened other than a perfect 25,000miles with the usual oil changes, new spark plugs and the classic tappets adjusted . The last service carried out in April 2008.

Recently though I've noticed a slightly lumpy tick over and after I washed the car, a engine misfire. Further diagnoses at night showed some of the Spark Plug leads (HT - high tension) breaking down to earth...not good!!!!

As the leads were not replaced as part of the rebuild. I had to put my hand in my pocket and swallow hard .......full set of leads, 2x distributors and 2x rotors ...total price £420 delivered.....over $800!!! the cheapest price in the UK from an OEM dealer ;-( .

Replacing the spark plug leads is not a 5 minute job .....You have to take all the left and right hand exhaust boxes off ( cat and muffler ), remove all the acoustic side panels and then remove all the side tin were. If you have AC the compressor this needs to be removed . All this before you can start the removal and replacement of the leads.

Full job took me 5.5hrs

Before I started I marked the coil leads:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217973933.jpg


AC compressor removed :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217973988.jpg


Full set of ignition parts :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974047.jpg


Under the AC compressor there is a HT Cable retainer...this snapped off :-(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974123.jpg


These two snapped off "lugs" were removed from the magnesium timing case cover by screwing in a self tapping screw and then pulling/levering it out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974266.jpg


While I had the Distributor caps off for replacement I checked the advance weights movement was still working freely ..very important for an engine to achieve maximum power as this is the ignition advance mechanism.....you can see the pencil mark has moved in the two pictures :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974465.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974495.jpg


As I had replaced the distributor belt as part of the rebuild, I just checked it was still in place and still in a good condition..it was. Quick check that the springs and weights were free and in place :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974610.jpg


Quick comparison of the old and new distributor caps :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974677.jpg


All the leads back in place:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974894.jpg


Replacing the Spark plug HT leads is well worth doing if you suspect a lead issue as they do not last for ever ...60K-70K miles in any car personally. Also shorting HT leads will do the ignition and electronics in the car no good at all...

The small engine roughness (miss fire from the odd leaking lead) which was only really noticeable at tick over ..has completely disappeared, and the engine throttle response now when accelerating is very much improved and miles better, its quite a different engine.!!

What an amazing thread!! Thank you for sharing this level of detail.