What is clasified as a 911 long block?

1meansc · 05-04-2007, 05:50 AM

Hi Guys

I just received my long block that was imported from Canada, to South Africa. All correspondence with the seller(dismantler) referred to the long block.

I would like to know what each of you would expect to receive when you purchased a long block for a 3.2 Carrera.

I was not conscerned with the condition, as long as the long block was rebuildable, i.e. crank & case in good order.

Your clarification would be appreciated.
Cheers
edited for spelling

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Generally a long block is an engine from crank to valve cover.
I would not expect a cooler, distributor flywheel or any other ancillary parts.

1meansc · 05-04-2007, 08:56 AM

Thanks Henry,
What you have pictured, is what I expected. This is what I received.

It is not visible from the pic, but this is what is missing:
Tensioners with covers & lines & pressure sender
Tappet covers
Thermostat
Breather cover
Some of the engine cooling tin - between cylinders
Oil pressure switch & fitting
Front engine pulley

This does not include the intake valve lodged in the piston on no 6. I kind of expected this type of failure.

I will contact the seller, and see what he has to say.

P.S. When I asked for a picture of the long block, all I received was a pic of it wrapped in bubble wrap, on a pallet.

Thanks again.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

I could see valve covers being somewhat debateable... I would have like to see all that stuff you're missing on their myself though.

North Coast Cab · North Coast Cab's Garage

You got short changed. All of those items are inexpensive and easy to attain, except for the tensioner set-up.

1meansc · 05-04-2007, 08:35 PM

Thanks guys,
I am glad that I was not being unreasonable.

I have most of the smalls in stock, but the tensioner setup is money I did not want to spend.

The seller has yet to respond to my mails, I will report back once I have a comment from him.

Thanks

1meansc · 05-05-2007, 11:55 AM

Well, I received a reply from the seller today. His comment is that everyone has a different idea of what a long block is, and that was his idea.

Where too from here?

I was thinking of contacting Porsche, to find out what they would supply as a long block. The only problem is that I am not sure, and have not seen a long block listed in the PET system.

I will mail him back, and let you know how it goes.

Cheers

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Your next step might be to access the difference between what you got and what you expected to receive.
At that point you can make a reasonable decision about whether it's worth pursuing.
If you give the remedy a dollar value you'll know how to proceed.
With a reasonable number, your seller may just give you some sort of refund.

Anguish over "the principle of the thing" makes sense in some instances. Porsche parts?

A wise man once told me "pick your battles wisely".

Good luck

Jeff Jagusch · 05-06-2007, 06:35 AM

+1 for Noah and Henry

I too would have expected the missing parts.

You got a stripped down long block.

Jeff

1meansc · 05-06-2007, 08:02 AM

Noah, I did not ask what was included in the long block. My mistake. But, in my defense, if you bought a 915 transmission, would you ask the seller if it included the differential. It is generally accepted that a 911 transmission includes the whole unit.

Thanks guys for your support.

silverc4s · silverc4s's Garage

+1 to what Henry said... try to amicably agree on a monetary solution that will at least assist you in obtaining some of the missing parts.

Else you could end up with a box of scrap, unuseable items, such as I have laying around the garage from some really worn engines - rebuilt in the past. No use to you, and no satisfaction either...

dtw · 05-09-2007, 11:47 AM

I'm not a professional in the business - but a hobbyist that has bought and sold many engines. My understanding of a long block would be a complete engine less induction, exhaust, and accessories. Crank to valve covers. I'd definitely consider all items you listed as missing to be parts of the long block. Items I'd exclude from the definition would be alternator, distributor, fan/housing/alternator, shrouding & tin (except for the cylinder cooling tin, as it cannot be installed on the assembled engine without removing the oil return tubes).

Chain tensioners are certainly an integral, internal part of the valve train/top end. Their exclusion would seem to be the most obvious violation of what any reasonable person that is knowledgeable about these motors would accept as a 'good faith' definition of what's included in a long block.

1meansc · 05-09-2007, 08:04 PM

Just an update.

The seller says that I was lucky that the only problem with the motor was a valve in the piston. He believes that I am lucky that the crank was still OK. I wonder what he thought I was purchasing for $3000 (US).

He still claims that what he supplied was a dismantlers version of a long block.

I would not like to put his name up on this forum, but would be prepared to answer any questions in this regard, via PM.

Thanks

PS Pics of the upcoming 3.5l will be on the engine forum soon.

jase007 · jase007's Garage

Quote:

He still claims that what he supplied was a dismantlers version of a long block.

That's not true ... having purchased a few from "dismantlers".

Good luck with the rebuild.

1meansc · 05-11-2007, 12:16 PM

As I have said in the earlier post, if you want to know who this is, I will respond via PM.

JeffreyNMemphis · 05-24-2007, 07:36 AM

I think the majority of people here would say that this business owner sold you a brick, not a house. You should post his name and business name so that someone searching the forums for information will find out what kind rules this person plays by.

Sending a picture of bubble wrap obviously did not give you the correct expectations. What you received may be what he received as a core/trade, but that does not relieve him of the responsibility of communicating and fairly representing his goods. He should have stated up front that the valve was stuck in the piston, and made some remarks about the conditions with appropriate caveats.

If you don't say who this guy is, its like letting a rapist free to pursue other victims.

1meansc · 05-24-2007, 07:46 AM

I have wanted to put the companies name here, and have been asked by many people via PM to give his details.

I am hesitant to give his details in an open forum, as I never asked him to specify what he included in the long block. I have learned a valuable lesson. I have delt with LA Porsche Dismantlers once, and have been happy with their service, and the manner in which they delt with me.

I have also delt with Tom Butler, who is on this forum. He supplied me a 3.2l alternator. What he said he was going to send, is what arrived here.

The unfortunate thing we have to deal with here in South Africa is a limited Porsche market, compared to the US, and a massive shortage of used parts. Very few 911s get stripped for spares.

I will persevere, and will be posting the build of the motor on this forum soon.

Thanks for all your support.

304065 · 05-24-2007, 07:48 AM

Jeffrey, I don't think very many here find that hyperbolic analogy appropriate.

The issue has been identified and our friend from J-burg has offered the information privately. I think this issue has been sufficiently addressed and we've all learned the important lesson here, which is:

"When identifying goods to your contract be absolutely clear."

Engines are NOT like pork bellies futures contracts: they are NOT standardized, fungible, identicial quantities that mean the same thing to everyone, because each one is a little different, both before it leaves the factory and in the decades after.

I consider the matter closed for now.