Rant: Hack mechanics (and possible lesson?)

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Okay so I'm doing a fair number of engines these days and I would guess in at least 1 out of 5 I find something that gives me pause. Specifically the amount of half-baked, shortcut, no attention to detail hack jobs I find on these engines.

Why am I saying it now? I just spent over an hour scraping off rotten rancid ratty valve-cover gaskets that some hack re-used and covered with some sealant instead of replacing them. I've seen taped hoses, silicone in scary places, improper fasteners, missing fasteners, nuts used as spacers, you name it in the course of tearing down engines. That's just the little stuff, the big things are too horrible to be believed.

Inevitably it takes me twice as long to correct the hack as it would have for the original mechanic to have done it right in the first place. Where's the pride in a job well done? Do they think the customer would not pay for the extra 30 minutes to do it properly if given the choice?!

Word to the wise consumer, be double-damn sure that when you take your Porsche to a shop, that they specialize in Porsches. I don't care if they have a German flag up on the wall, talk to them, get a feel for whether or not they really know what they are talking about. Ask questions. If it doesn't feel right, leave. There are too many great independent shops out there to risk this kind of work.

*Getting down off my soapbox*. Whew, that felt good.

ONQRACIng · ONQRACIng's Garage

Very good advise!
Anyone can replace parts, only a few can rebuild.

304065 · 06-06-2007, 05:09 AM

Word!

(The "standard of pride" is '50 years from now when my engine is opened again, whatever archaeologist is looking at it will say, "Zis guy knew vat he vas dooink!')

KTL · 06-06-2007, 09:48 AM

BTW, Chris is one of those great independent shops. His get-it-done-and-get-it-done-right approach to wrenching on his cars and customer cars is admirable.

Otto,

Your dial indicator and wacky gauge holder is on it's way to you in the mail. Thanks for the rental and hopefully you've not been worrying when CEO of RSR is planning on getting you back your tools!

Porsche_monkey · 06-06-2007, 01:00 PM

Oops, I have hylomar on my valve cover gaskets. But I knew I was a hack.

fastfredracing · 06-06-2007, 02:30 PM

I always get a kick out of this stuff, I did a bunch of oil leaks on an SC last year, and the ends of the rocker shaft holes, as well as the cavities in between them were completely filled with household grade silicon, not even permatex. It took hours, and many beers to clean all that crap out of there.

Eagledriver · 06-06-2007, 04:48 PM

It shows you why it pays to do your own engines. There have been very few times I've been happy with the work that someone else did on any of my cars.

-Andy

john walker's workshop · 06-06-2007, 04:57 PM

nothing pisses me off more than sealer on VC gaskets that's bonded to the cam tower. grrrr! you spend more time scraping than it would take to do the whole job. extra $$$ fer sure.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Thanks Kevin, I have two or three dial indicators, so I wasn't worried.

JW... The sealer is bad enough, then when the gasket is old and rotten so every 1/2 inch peels apart and you have to sit there with a razor blade, carb cleaner, and towels... It just chaps my fanny!

spydr32000 · 06-07-2007, 04:27 AM

Chris and John I have to agree whole heartedly.
Some of the things we see down under by either shops that think they can, or should know better, are just incredible. I find the worst thing is when a petrol station rings looking for info about setting the cam timing or similar. What are they doing taking on jobs that are SO far beyond them?

Grady Clay · 06-08-2007, 07:14 PM

Chris,

I know I'm not telling you anything new.

There are two aspects to this story. As many note, shop/mechanic incompetence/indifference is probably the most significant. The usual cause is lack of knowledge about Porsche and the unwillingness to access Porsche parts.

The most disturbing are those who intentionally do shoddy work. This can even be DIY. Too often, this is because an owner demands a “fix” for inappropriately low cost. Porsches are expensive cars. The repair parts are expensive. A 911 is relatively labor intensive. Special tools and knowledge are necessary. Most important for a successful outcome, the process needs the love of the car – even over the (too cheep) instructions of the owner.

A good Porsche shop will refuse to do work “on the cheep.” This is a possible way (among many) to analyze a potential shop. This is the “intent” of the repair. An “on the cheep” repair does disservice to the concept of “Porsche.” It also cheats the next owner. This is also why a proper PPI is so important.

Highly important is the shop/mechanic skill and experience. The shop owners who post on Pelican should be praised for their contributions. There are also many out there who are too busy repairing 911s to post on Pelican. I can think of many. A good test is look at their collection of Porsche technical information (Factory Workshop Manuals, parts info and more). Reputation is paramount.

At the other extreme are some who profess more than they are capable of delivering. This is a judgment call but many who have been around Porsche for a long time can spot the BS. Ask around.

Today we have the DIY issue. Not everyone has the intent or skill to do things properly themselves. As most Pelicans have found, proper maintenance and repair of your 911 isn’t an easy job. It requires lots of information, parts, tools and – most important – intent.

The advantage of DIY over a shop is you can stop and find the correct part or search out the correct information. A shop has to have all that at hand including the tools. With a DIY project you have the luxury of time. In a shop, there are the dual issues of getting cars delivered and the efficiency of the process. No one wants their 911 just sitting in a shop and the shop can only survive if it promptly delivers properly repaired cars.

There are some significant advantages of a proper shop. Probably the two most important are knowing what needs to be done and what doesn’t need to be replaced. There is no substitute for a skilled pair of eyes. This has become even more important with too many cars/engines/transmissions operated on by incompetent or mis/mal-directed non-mechanics.

Proper DIY has its place and so do competent shops. We need to root out the other.

Best,
Grady

JCF · 02:44 AM

Been finding some of that stuff as I've gone through my engine also. Same pseudo gaskets and the bell crank bushing was a piece of copper pipe turned to fit - thought that one was clever.
I don't mind paying more if the job is done right. There is nothing worse than a spending a little less money for much bigger problems.

timc · 06-10-2007, 07:46 PM

I took an engine apart one time to find the air deflector "tins" on cyl's 1-3 installed upside down. I guess they were using them to keep the air off the cylinders. 4-6 were correct.

Clay Perrine · 06-12-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by timc
I took an engine apart one time to find the air deflector "tins" on cyl's 1-3 installed upside down. I guess they were using them to keep the air off the cylinders. 4-6 were correct.

That is a good way to get the cylinders overheated, which will ruin them and the rings.

I used to be a full time line mechanic. I saw lots of hack jobs done to cars. I won't do that. I work part time for a Porsche specialist shop here in the DFW area. I don't make enough money to make up for the time I spend there, but it is rewarding in other ways. The owner will NOT do a halfway job. He insists that it be done right, and I like that. I do it for the love of these fine automobiles, not for the money. I make enough of that in my day job.

I am currently fixing a butchered wiring job on a Porsche. It is a conversion car, and has a later model engine in it. I sat for 2 hours drawing up a diagram on paper to give to the owner (and to help with the wiring process) so the next guy won't have the same problems.

Rusty Heap · Rusty Heap's Garage

Shameless plug for John Walkers shop in Seattle.......talented trainned eyes are great to have his experience do your shop repairs.

My 2nd gear tranny syncro and gear was grinding occasionally, previous owner who had never touched the tranny said, yeah it's going out and slowly getting worse the last couple years.

John tore into the tranny, only to find that someone had used a 1st gear syncro, on the 2nd gear set.

1st gear syncro is a bit weaker and spring rate is different than the stiffer 2nd gear.

Once again, trainned experienced eyes are a wonderful thing!

wastintime · 06-12-2007, 09:20 PM

Chris, I feel you man...

I saw some crazy hack jobs go through my shop when it was open. The funny part is, the best ones I ever saw were done by the local Porsche and Subaru dealers. On one of them Subaru ended up paying my bill and buying my customer a complete new motor. The best was done by a local shop here that I won't name, but is pretty reputable, and does a lot of high level racing. A fellow pelican had e-mailed me before my shop opened, and he brought his car by, and brought us his last bill from said reputable shop. We literally had to redo everything they did, and then fix what was actually wrong with the car. It was pretty ridiculous.

You are right though, Porsches are like children and choosing a mechanic for them is like choosing a doctor, babysitter, and best friend all in one. Grady hit on a really good point about turning away customers. Shops that love the cars will turn away bad customers or customers that just want it done cheaply. Which is not to say it's bad to work with people on a budget. I was 16 once too and in over my head with a Porsche. But the guy who wants to haggle with you over why porsche says it takes x amount of time to drop a motor or haggle over your oil and parts prices, etc...

The biggest compliment I think I ever got with the whole experience of owning my own Porsche shop was that when I found out I was getting divorced and decided to close it, I had several of my customers plead with me not to move like I've been planning because they wanted me to keep working on their Porsches even if it was in my garage because they didn't want to go to any other shop here in Charleston. I took that as a pretty huge compliment.

911quest · 06-13-2007, 09:16 AM

I have read this post and there is alot of good onions on it and working on cars for the last ten years has taught me something thou every car that gets worked by someone else is a hack and the person that works on after thinks the guy before is a hack it's just the mentality of mechanics I guess.

Not to say I haven't seen some pretty @#$%ed up stuff also silicon is for caulking fish tanks not valve cover gaskets.

timc · 06-15-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clay Perrine
That is a good way to get the cylinders overheated, which will ruin them and the rings.

I used to be a full time line mechanic. I saw lots of hack jobs done to cars. I won't do that. I work part time for a Porsche specialist shop here in the DFW area. I don't make enough money to make up for the time I spend there, but it is rewarding in other ways. The owner will NOT do a halfway job. He insists that it be done right, and I like that. I do it for the love of these fine automobiles, not for the money. I make enough of that in my day job.

I am currently fixing a butchered wiring job on a Porsche. It is a conversion car, and has a later model engine in it. I sat for 2 hours drawing up a diagram on paper to give to the owner (and to help with the wiring process) so the next guy won't have the same problems.

Yea, I know, I was making a joke!!! Should have used "!!!"

Tim.

LakeCleElum · 06-18-2007, 10:01 PM

I was having dinner one night with the guy that is the manager of the Ferrari dealership in Scotsdale, AZ. He has had guys cheap out on service and go to independent shops. One of these shops called him one day and asked is the engine really had to come out to do a valve adjust. He affirmed that it did. The shop asked: Do I take the engine out from under or above the car?

He replied: Doesn't matter, you can do it either way!!!!!!!!

Then he waits for the car to come back to be done right....

john_colasante · 06-19-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cstreit
...be double-damn sure that when you take your Porsche to a shop, that they specialize in Porsches.

While I agree with most of what you say, and you certainly seem to have a reputation for a guy who takes pride in his work, the sentiment above is a bit over-rated.

I have had to pleasure to work with career mechanics who would not consider themselves to be exclusively "Porsche specialists" per se, but are so vastly experienced with the mechanics of combustion engines that they can embarrass a less-skilled Porsche guy with knowledge, wisdom and experience and fully do an excellent job on Porsches also using proper techniques.

When you meet one of these rare guys you know exactly what I'm talking about, especially when you are only experienced with "Porsche only" guys with lesser experience and skills.