Glad you will make it ralph - I think I owe you a beer anyway.

Hey, it's more than a threesome....I've got my hotel too.

OK - so ralph, jeff, ed - first round is on me.

I have a feeling it is going to be an expensive evening for all of us...SmileWavy

Jeff and Ed will have their motors built, running and tuned by then (right guys?) and we can all bench race. Heck, Jeremy can give us all rides on the beach in his cab and pretend its Paris-Dakar...:)

Ralph

Oh, boy, here we go!! I should be tuned and the car should be in the paint shop then.

Ed seems to be moving right along so......... how did your p/c set measure out?

Cheers

My new buddy George @ Olllies confirmed my initial inspection of my pistons being well withing spec. I did have a bit of taper to the cylinders which he expected to see, but is machining a groove into them for an additional seal to safeguard.

I've got mixed emotions :confused: in that I'm not going to buy new P's and C's, but I'll take the savings in cost. I am having him drill the heads for twin plugs, however. I figure when I get moved to Cali-91octane-fornia next year, I'm going to want the benefit of having 12 plugs even though I'll be stock compression and displacement. In the meantime, I'll run dummy plugs and stock ignition.

I sure hope my engine is done by then, but with my travel schedule, I miss a lot of opportunity to work on the engine. The plus side is we're going into fall, which means cool evenings to work on the motor a bit when I am home and not have to run my garage A/C all day to keep it habitable out there. :D

You're going to need that savings for RR3...:)

I haven't met Jeremy in person yet, but I've witnessed Jeff knocking them back with little difficulty...SmileWavy

Not to totally derail Jeff's thread on his beautiful motor, but have you tried to find some Euro pistons to go into your cylinders? If you are twin-plugging anyway it may be worth the extra expense if you can find them separate from cylinders. Just a thought...I can spend your money on your motor or at the bar, your choice. :)

Ralph

Yep, I've been keeping my eyes open for some Euros, but have only found full sets of P's and C's. I did find one set for about $2500, but figured I'd only go that route if mine didn't spec out.

Truth be told, I was having a hard time keeping up with Ralph..... :)

Okay, so now we just need to figure out where we are meeting! I can find Ralph in a crowd but not so sure I could pick Ed or Jeremy out of a crowd of two...... :)

Off to bed to dream about dynos and motor sounds I have not heard in a long long long time... wish me luck tomorrow!

Cheers

Good luck on the Dyno! Can't wait to see the results of your tuning.

Well, I think I had a very entertaining day today! The motor made 385hp! Okay, it didn't and in fact we never even did a run where we looked at power.... :)

Flat deck showed up in the morning and we loaded it on and off to the shop. Here it is sitting in front of the shop awaiting its initial tune....



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189644621.jpg

We hooked up the laptop and Marco went through all the basic parameters to make sure it was good. Turns out some dunba$$ (with the intitials JA) wired the TPS backwards. Once that was sorted out it was time to light the fire.

We started her up and set the initial timing curve and AFR. The I adjusted the throttles so she would idle at 1000rpm. Gave it a high idle (2K) for a short bit and then changed the oil.

Drove, yes I actually drove my car after 2 years and 3 days, up onto the dyno and started to set more parameters into the computer while we did some accel/decel runs to seat the rings.

Here she is up on the dyno....


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189644888.jpg

We then gave it multiple runs up the RPM range under load and decel under load and did some timing checks and monitored the AFR. Marco was hard at work on the laptop while I manned the timing light and the water sprayer which I used from time to time to spray a mist into the cooling fan.

Let it cool down after 20mins of running and repeat the process twice more.

Once we were done it was running really well, especially considering the throttles are not balanced and the tune that is now in it only basic so I can go put some miles on it on the road. (gonna have to put the windshield back in I guess)

Next I took it for the obligatory rip down the road with out plates and no windshield...... Any one know why my shorts were wet when that was over??

The throttle response is unbelievable. It comes off idle and takes a load very well, no hesitation. So far I am pleased with the way it is running and will now get it aligned and put some miles on it.

Flat decked it home and then fired it up again and drove it into the garage where it is sleeping quietly now. The one thing I noticed is that it did not run as well after it had cooled off and I was pulling it into the driveway, so on the next session the "below normal operating temps" tunning will be looked at.

We are planning another day to dial it once there are some miles on it and then we will see how strong it is.

Cheers

On a side note, so far (cross fingers) it is leak free. Oil temps never went above 195.

Another thing the tuner was amazed at is the intake air temp. He builds and tunes forced induction Japanese cars (2 and 3 rotor mazdaa and a wide variety of nissan and toyotas). The ambient temp was 23 celsius. Intake airtemp never went above 25 celsius. He was amazed!

Cheers

That is great that you were able to fire it up! Looking forward to finding out what this car ends up putting down. Maybe one day we'll have a chance to both run Laguna Seca at the same time ; )
My car is about a month or so from paint.......I should have rebuilt the engine at the same time that I did the body work because it is much harder to have it down now since I drove it for a while.

i spit up some beer when i first read 385, lol... imediatley thinking i put together the wrong engine!!!

glad to hear yours is up and running... the more i seen those wheels the more i like them, kinda a modern mini-lite IMO.

any updates? it must have logged 40 hours on the dyno by now :P

Putting the winshield back in tomorrow then hooking up the dual AFR meters and then off to umm break it in a little more on the street before heading to the dyno again.

Cheers

sounds great Jeff!

Can you post what kind of a dual AFR set up you will be using? I want to do one myself on a build I am doing.

Great job you are doing!!

Bob

I am using two LC-1's, a toggle switch, and a small square digital gauge.

Cheers

do you have any pics of your set up?
Why did you choose this way to do this? Is there a way NOT to do this?
Thanks, Bob

I will have pics when it shows up in the mail!

I went this route because with my current exhaust the two banks do not mix, therefore I wanted to see what both banks were doing. I also did not want to litter the dash with two AFR gauges, so I got the one very small square digital one.

My ECU has a wideband upgrade, but it was more dollars and would only use one sensor.

Here is where I got it, nice friendly folks.

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodlist.asp?idcategory=44

Cheers

Thats a slick set up Jeff! Will that unit piggy back with the stock 3.2 motronic do you know?

I am not sure if one could do that or not. I think there was a recent thread about making something similar work with the 3.2 DME.

Cheers

well done
 

Hi jeff excellent job keep in post I will follow your footprint about your engine
thanks Steve

Okay guys.....

Putting a temporay operating permit on the car in the morning for the weekend..... Sun and nice weather in the forcast!

Got the dual LC-1's installed, leaned out the cold start enrichment, now it is time to drive her in anger!!! Putting in the ear plugs and then off we go in the morning. Digital dash and laptop by my side!

Hoping fellow Pelican Jorian times his arrival right to pick up his tuned SC so he can go for a ride too........

Gotta sneak out as quiet as I can to not annoy the neighbors then should be putting the pedal in the carpet a few times while keeping a keen eye on the AFR's..... I am hoping to stop by Pelican "Poorsha's" place to see his new 911 he just imported (bought at TRE I believe).

Hoping to put a few hundred miles on it this weekend, then back to the dyno for final tuning.

My son (5 years old) can't wait for his ride in Daddy's "race car" when we head for our weeky family supper on sunday night at his Grandparent's house.

I have not driven this car more than 200 yards in the last 25 months. Excited? Not going to sleep well? you bet!!!!

Wish me luck!

Cheers

Go Jeff Go!

Two drives in today (so far)!!

I am loving this thing! Even though the ECU has had only very minor tweaking it is running great. The motor always comes back to a rock solid idle, every time. Right now there are NO drivability issues and I was afraid of that based on the stories I have heard/read about programable EFI being very difficult to get right........

I have been taking it relatively easy (speed wise) as the car only has a roughed in alignment but it tracks nice and straight. I am putting a good load on it though in both accel and deccel.

Idle AFR is 13.8-14.0 right now, and on deccel I am seeing 15.0 and on accel it is between 12.2 and 13.5 or so depending on the rpm at the time. Both banks are measuring basically identically.

Gotta go out for more fun!!!!


Cheers

Thats great news! I know you will love the new ride.
btw, take your time and tune your base map before moving on to the other parameters. Your end result will be worth it.

Thanks Jamie,

As a full on rookie at programming an ECU, I am leaving that pretty much up to my tuner. I was able to set the basic cold start parameters (round of applause :) ) and the base timing map, but not much else........ I am really pleased with how well it is running right now so far. Oh, I have been able to change the max rpm and the triggers for the two stage rev limiter......

It is still a little rich overall I think, and the plugs seem to confirm that. Under load it looks good, but at part throttle it is rich.

As a side note, I took it to the hi-way scale today, and it was 2270lbs with a little under a half tank of gas...... Still have the Lexan window kit to put in too.....

I am going to take it to a different one tomorrow to see if it is the same. Might as well go there, I need somewhere to drive to right? For reference, the scale dropped by my own 170 when I got out of the car, and it does say my GTI with my me and 5 year old weighs 3400......

On a side note, what would be the minimum fuel pressure one would want to run and still atomize fuel properly?

Cheers

Well, on Saturday I drove it again and it is getting much stronger. I have about 300 miles on it now. I balanced the throttles (geeee that was fun :) ) and they are al with in about .1 in/hg on the gauge. I also verified by checking the AFR's, both banks are with in .1 at idle.

I also set added another 2 degrees to the timing and that helped wake it up a bit too.

Another 600-700 miles or so and off for some more tuning!

Cheers

I am glad to hear it's running well Jeff!

It's been a long time in the making. Glad to hear it's going well.

Jeff, are you going to be able to keep driving this beauty during the winter or does it have to come off the road? Are you going to do any video for us? :D

The car only has a storage permit on it now, so when the sun comes out, and I have a day off with free time, I put a road permit on it and drive it. I want to get 1000 or so miles on it and then go back to the dyno for the final tuning.

I am really impressed with the EFI so far. Even at 6 degrees celsius, it fires right up and is ready to go.

As for video, I will put my camera in the car and record some road footage but the thing has completely useless microphone.

I do plan to fully document the final tunning with text and pics (and hopefully video from freinds camera) and then get together with Grady to help me explain exactly what we did to tune it. Then I will summarize the things that worked, the things that did not, where I screwed up and what I would do differently next time.

Cheers

Well, after much delay, off to the dyno we went today!

Motor has about 700 miles on it. I do not have the printout yet as the computor/printer interface was buggered and the tourque feature on the dyno was not working either, but.........


After about 1.5 more hours of tuning it put down between 282-286HP (@7000rpm) at the wheels. I am pretty pleased. I know it is a dynojet and I am not making any power claims, just saying what it did today on this dyno.

Out on the street is really comes on the cam around 5000 and pulls like mad, the car is very quick.

But..................

At the dyno every once in a while when it was decelerating from 7000+rpm it would blow a little blue out the exhaust.......... Nothing under load and it did not happen every time....

I took her home and did a compression and leak down test and here are the results....

#1 177lbs and 2% leak past rings
#2 180lbs and 2% leak past rings
#3 180lbs and 2% leak past rings
#4 182lbs and 2% leak past rings
#5 182lbs and 4% leak past rings
#6 181lbs and 2% leak past rings


Not sure what to think about the blue. The motor still only has about 700 miles on it. Compression and leak down look good.

The plugs were all dark tan/brown with no oil on them at all.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Very nice Jeff - I bet that car is alot of fun! Congrats!

Thanks Jeremy, it was actually a little anti climatic.... Just needs to have the paint done, which I will not be doing, and then she is done....

Already dreaming about a 3.7........... or low boost 3.5 turbo.......

What do you think about the blue smoke?



Oh well, I do have the prototype Hargett throttles here now. Next up is to fit them to the motor. I have to do a little fab work to hook up the fuel lines and linkage and then back to the dyno to see how they do!

For the record, since the original build I have ditched the B&B's and went to 1 5/8 headers with a M@K sport muffler. So, for those wondering, the M&K seems to make good power.


There was one flat spot around 5000-5200 that could not be felt on the road but showed on the dyno, strange because the AFR stayed constand right through it.......

I think I will set the redline at around 7400 as it peaked at 7000 and then leveled through 7200 or so before falling.

It was intersting to see that the power did not change noticably with the max timing at 26,27 or 28 degrees.......


Cheers

I wouldn't worry about the blue smoke - not with an engine with 700 miles - keep an eye on it for sure - but with your leak down and compression numbers - I wouldn't worry.

I here you on the 3.5 or 3.7 I'd love a 3.5 turbo - nice 450 hp - woo woo -

Go drive that car now!

Good show Jeff.

Look forward to seeing the comparison.

congrats! Jeff, would be real curious to look at the dyno curve. Do you have it in a form you can post? How does it compare to a curve from a non-ITB 3.4L?

Doug

That is a healthy motor. You are teetering on the edge of 100HP/l at the crank. Love it!

I am interested to hear about the Hargett ITBs. They are nice to look at.