Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Posts: 37,712
I only read and try to draw conclusions. I've read about break in for, what, 30 years? The camshaft manufacturers have their own agenda and it's always been the 20 minute deal. At less than high idle, you have too low of oil pressure.

Why would this be bad for the rings? Do the 20 minute routine for the cams and then do the accelerate/decelerate for the rings. They won't wear the cylinders smooth in 20 minutes the way I see it.

Old 04-10-2009, 03:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
mca mca is offline
*****
 
mca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88911coupe View Post
I was leaning towards doing the 20 minute in the garage anyway since it would allow me to keep an eye out for fuel or oil leaks or any other issues that might crop up. I'm running out of excuses to put it back in and fire it up...I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and go for it. There's no way in hell I'd have even considered doing this without Wayne's book.
I feel ya man. Went through the same thing last year. I was hesitant when it finally came time to turn that key.

No worries, it will work out fine.
__________________
82 911SC Coupe Chiffon / Chocolate
9.5 JEs, 964 Cams, SSIs, Dansk Exhaust, CIS (SOLD)
Old 04-10-2009, 04:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
I've been building performance engines of various nature and manufacture for over 15 years now. My break-in procedure has always been that of to pre-pressurize and bleed the oil system, and allow a full and complete warm up period of the motor at a moderate idle(1000rpms or so), leak and temp checks, inspect sub systems, etc. Typically this will take up that 15-20 minute initial run period at which point I shut it down and drop filter/inspect the oil and ad fresh lubricant and filter.

The next step I do is to follow the ring manufactures specified initial ring break in procedure for that exact make of ring being used in the engine. 99% of the time....the ring manufactures will tell you to run it hard. Hastings for example, will tell you to run the engine/vehicle at speed from roughly 30-60mph in a 1:1 gear ratio at WOT, then decelerate in gear to pull vacuum. Do that 10 times for an intial ring break in.

We're not bouncing off the rev limiter of hitting fuel cut, nor are we lugging the engine which puts excessive side loads on the rings/pistons. Porsche break ins I'll typically swing them out to sub 6K during the break in for reference. Some Audi and BMW race motors that'll be 8K rpms. It's all subjective and solely based on the motor in question and build specs of THAT motor.

After that initial run I then drop and filter the oil again. The motor is then run hard on a dyno for further break in and power readings, or put right into use in spirited/track driving fashion.

Rings need compression/vacuum to seat fully and properly. For gas ported pistons using low tension ringsIT'S AN ABSOLUTE MUST.....NO QUESTIONS ASKED RUN IT HARD. Babying the motor is not going to help it any for certain.

Vacuum decel is super important too, so don't just clutch the car and coast to a stop during the initial WOT pulls (dyno, street, or track, doesn't matter). Vacuum decel aid in the rings' ability to deglaze the cylinders. New engines have a good amount of blowby and the walls can glazed very easily due to the fuel/oil contamination on the cylinder walls. Glaze prevents proper ring break in.


This is how I do it. "Simple" as that
__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 04-11-2009, 08:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
Spot on Adam!
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 04-12-2009, 05:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,575
Adam, I wonder if you could expand on how you "pre-pressurize" the oil system. I've been giving myself a headache trying to come up with some "kluge" to do this very same thing but nothing is coming to mind. Does this require some sort of special equipment only a race shop might have?
TIA
__________________
Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 04-13-2009, 08:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
Theoretically, I guess you could use an accusump, fill it, close the valve, and pressurize it to pre-oil the engine if you used a manual valve.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 04-13-2009, 04:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
efhughes3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 7,094
Garage
Buck:

I kept my coil wire off and my fuel pump relay out and cranked her over for several seconds. I think a couple of shots of 15 seconds on the starter will get you what you need. It is amazing how quickly you can hit good oil pressure under just the starter motor.
__________________
Ed Hughes
2015 981 Cayman GTS
6 speed,Racing Yellow

Past:1984 911 Targa (Ruby), 1995 993C2 (Sapphire), 1991 928S4
Old 04-13-2009, 08:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
Usually we do that with the plugs left out and pack the oil pump with vasoline during assembly to help build pressure faster.

It's interesting to note that doing this we never were able to build enough pressure with my m96 engine for the oil pressure light to go out. We ended up having to fire it up for a split second, then shut down. After a few cycles, the oil light went out, then we let it run.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 04-14-2009, 04:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88911coupe View Post
Adam, I wonder if you could expand on how you "pre-pressurize" the oil system. I've been giving myself a headache trying to come up with some "kluge" to do this very same thing but nothing is coming to mind. Does this require some sort of special equipment only a race shop might have?
TIA
It's nothing super special, but is a tool that I made here for this procedure. I took an old old pressure sender and made a screw in adapter out of it. Using an electric pump and a rather simple hose/regulator I can force feed oil into the motor through the pressure port(turbo feed line port on case for example). I have a clean SS tank that I fill with ~ 2 gallons or so of fresh oil. Hook up the pump system, pull the bottom case drain plugs and/or sump cover, and run the pump(put big catch pan underneath.

Usually back feeds at about 20-30psi pending oil viscosity, but it purges the entire system of air. I'll then drain the case and do a proper oil fill up and crank the motor. I'll typically build solid oil pressure withing 5-10 seconds of cranking the engine. Then I fire it up.

I made the system specifically for hydraulic lifter type motors as it purges the valve train of air almost instantly but I just keep making more adapters from various fittings/spare parts to suit any engine I break in here

The pump I use is an old Tilton diff fluid pump that I cleaned and rebuilt, but any good 12v pump that can handle petroleum will work just fine. The stainless tank is just an old water based type fire extingushier. Works perfect for what it does!
__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 04-14-2009, 02:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered
 
911 tweaks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: northeast
Posts: 4,527
Cool... Adam, can you show a picture of the adapter~pcs you fabbed up to make the connections to the tensioner.
Thanks, bob
__________________
I live for 911 tweaks...
Old 04-14-2009, 03:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 tweaks View Post
Cool... Adam, can you show a picture of the adapter~pcs you fabbed up to make the connections to the tensioner.
Thanks, bob
Yeah I'll dig it out today and take a picture for you guys.

__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 04-15-2009, 05:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:14 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.